EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

I don't think we'll leave, but I do think the whole EU project will eventually disintegrate.

It will be replaced by far bigger far more global rules, regulations and bodies, global currencies etc. So you're right but I suspect in the opposite way to what you expect.

 

[grunge]

As for the daily mail ( from a page or 2 back ), they lost all credibility ( they had very little to start with ) when they blatantly make stuff up and lie in articles. Lots of papers do it but none as unashamedly as the Daily Mail.

Case and point ( used as I have the links available ) where they make stuff up, miss represent facts and blatantly lie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html

The response by the Met office

https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/14/met-office-in-the-media-14-october-2012/

If you insist on reading this garbage make sure you fact check what you read!.

There's plenty of info out there about there lies. Just do some googling

Here's some links ( I've not fact checked every item on every one )

http://listverse.com/2015/06/23/10-egregiously-false-stories-in-the-daily-mail/

http://boingboing.net/2014/01/03/lies-of-the-daily-mail.html

There is even a forum dedicated to it!

http://mailwatch.co.uk/forum/

I've not seen any other paper have so much dedicated to there lies.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Course it will imagine if the French and Belgians make no attempt to stop people smuggling in vehicles or people getting on boats.

its just people thinking incredibly blinkered and not actually having a comparison.

People shouting about democracy when living in a monarchy, with an civil service with no electability running everything, an entirely unelected legal system, an unelected second house and a form of democracy that normally means around 20%-25% of voters in any seat have actually voted for the winner - making it one of the least representative voting systems in the developed world .

It's comedy and shows how little people actually think. People want to be sheep they just want an English shepherd instead of a European one (regardless of who the better shepherd is) but every night they will happily hide in their pens waiting to be shorn or sent to the abattoir.

The sheep keep arguing with other sheep because they are terrified of actually challenging the shepherd or sheep dogs.

If sheep wanted to escape and run free I'd understand but just voting for a smaller pen and a less able shepherd seems well..... Daft

Where have you been all day mate?!;) Could have done with you 7 hours ago! he!...I completely agree mate.......people think running away from the EU will fix our problems when really all we would be doing is adding to them.....in my opinion!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Ealing Blue - I disagree with nearly everything you say but (genuine compliment) I've got to admire your prodigious output. If the remain campaign aren't paying you, they fookin well should be.

I am actually far less interested in the in and out part than the fact this is manipulated by the people who are behind all the mess we are in to turn the population on each other rather than focus on speculators, tax dodgers, hedge fund owners, media moguls who twist and lie to a population and all the people who really cause the issues. I hate seeing poor immigrants being expected to pay the crimes for corrupt billionaires. It's the political equivalent of street drug dealers getting 10 years whilst the powers behind the trade dine with politicians in Michelin starred restaurants.

If Brexit was in any way remotely serious and had thought at all with any intelligence or long term thinking about good policies for equality, democracy or any of the lofty ideas bandied around as a way of pretending it's not about immigration then I may even be on that side

 

[PragueBlue]

What absolute tosh!!! But interesting to see that 40% is now a Brexit victory and not 45%. If Brexit loses they might split 5 ways , destroy the Tory party in Rage and spend so much time fighting themselves Corbyn gets in. Could be the destruction of the Tories for a decade as likely as 40% meaning inevitable victory.

Remember the polls brexiters are dying off much quicker than Inners are

Not sure about that. If we vote to remain, I suspect UKIP will get a huge surge in support from all the major parties as being the only real exit party. Not sure if they can maintain it to the next election though.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Where have you been all day mate?!;) Could have done with you 7 hours ago! he!...I completely agree mate.......people think running away from the EU will fix our problems when really all we would be doing is adding to them.....in my opinion!

It was the middle of the night! Just getting the girls ready for swimming and popping on.

It won't solve any of the issues, but most people don't want to solve any of the issues they want to kick the problem down the road just far enough that their kids have to deal with it. We are becoming the most self serving and short term generation in human history. Arguing about Brexit lets idiots think they are lofty and talk about the long term whilst actually ignoring all the real issues, avoiding any hard decisions that require any sacrifice and kick that can down the road.

The EU is far from perfect it needs a kick up the arse but it just isn't the problem it is probably not even in the top ten problems . But it is an established psychological phenomenon that some people when faced with a. Really big issues will choose something to deflect on to as it is easier for their brain to cope with. Britain has heart disease but is worrying about a wart

 

[EalingBlue2]

Not sure about that. If we vote to remain, I suspect UKIP will get a huge surge in support from all the major parties as being the only real exit party. Not sure if they can maintain it to the next election though.

No it's speculation, I certainly don't agree that getting 41% Brexit will stop anyone even standings pro EU and meaning inevitable victory. I think what happens to UKIP depends on the Tories , if in wins I suspect they will lose a fair number the right and UKIP will strengthen , if it's close it could be a bloodbath first. If Brexit wins then the short term harm and negotiation challenges will mean a really big backlash from the centre but also an anti European hardening on the zealots and who knows who wins that, it depends who the angry sheep want blame next

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

It was the middle of the night! Just getting the girls ready for swimming and popping on.

It won't solve any of the issues, but most people don't want to solve any of the issues they want to kick the problem down the road just far enough that their kids have to deal with it. We are becoming the most self serving and short term generation in human history. Arguing about Brexit lets idiots think they are lofty and talk about the long term whilst actually ignoring all the real issues, avoiding any hard decisions that require any sacrifice and kick that can down the road.

The EU is far from perfect it needs a kick up the arse but it just isn't the problem it is probably not even in the top ten problems . But it is an established psychological phenomenon that some people when faced with a. Really big issues will choose something to deflect on to as it is easier for their brain to cope with. Britain has heart disease but is worrying about a wart

You got my vote!;) people want to leave the EU because its easier to blame someone else for our problems...some not willing to look in-ward and see most of our issues are alot closer to home...

 

[purplenose]

People still miss the point, the EU is totally unworkable on every level, it is going to implode and when it does those nations who are part of it will face a calamity of epic proportions. Voting in is voting for short term greed....leaving is a gamble only in the sense there maybe some short term negative impact. That for me is no gamble at all. Todays youth will see British cities looking much like Homs and Aleppo if we remain.

 

[EalingBlue2]

You got my vote!;) people want to leave the EU because its easier to blame someone else for our problems...some not willing to look in-ward and see most of our issues are alot closer to home...

Until that changes nothing will change and the vote be it in or out will be a disappointment to everyone. Solving the problems of the U.K. Will be like giving up smoking , it will take will power, sacrifice and putting the long term ahead of the today . I actually think people prefer if they can blame immigrants or foreigners for their issues rather than accepting the reality it's not them it's us!

 

[purplenose]

Until that changes nothing will change and the vote be it in or out will be a disappointment to everyone. Solving the problems of the U.K. Will be like giving up smoking , it will take will power, sacrifice and putting the long term ahead of the today . I actually think people prefer if they can blame immigrants or foreigners for their issues rather than accepting the reality it's not them it's us!

Your correct about putting the long term ahead of the present....that is exactly why we must get out.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Your correct about putting the long term ahead of the present....that is exactly why we must get out.

But nothing will change because our isn't about the long term, the Brexit vote is driven with unhapieness post GFC and the desire for someone to blame and the vote is only taking place because of an idiot PM and his wanting to put off internal party problems

 

[Leech]

People seem misguided in why they want to leave the EU. It seems to be all about British sovereignty and not wishing to take orders and immigrants as dictated to us by some prat in Brussels.

The fact is under the renegotiated terms immigrants will have no reason to come here if they aren't able to contribute towards our GDP and the growth of the nation, and in any case the negative effects we see caused by societal segregation today are actually second and third generation British citizens of foreign descent, not recent entrants. You can't just shut the borders and expect those problems to disappear.

We're at the head of the largest free trade zone in the world, why throw such a thing away for misplaced tub thumping patriotism?

 

[Helmet Cole]

No it's speculation, I certainly don't agree that getting 41% Brexit will stop anyone even standings pro EU and meaning inevitable victory. I think what happens to UKIP depends on the Tories , if in wins I suspect they will lose a fair number the right and UKIP will strengthen , if it's close it could be a bloodbath first. If Brexit wins then the short term harm and negotiation challenges will mean a really big backlash from the centre but also an anti European hardening on the zealots and who knows who wins that, it depends who the angry sheep want blame next

Post referendum, whichever way it goes its going to be messy for uk politics. I think this is why Cameron has toned down and farage and corbyn are (relatively) quiet. While we all fret about the referendum they are preparing for the aftermath which is politically every unpredictable. Ukip could either vanish overnight or become a rallying point for the discontent. It always seems that whichever party is in power the issue of Europe becomes quite toxic mid-term. Before the distraction of Iraq in 2002, the Blair govt was starting to unravel because of the EU debate so its not just a Tory problem. This is probably where corbyn has played a blinder by keeping quiet, the other leaders will be tainted by the referendum and the 'debate'.
Interesting times, and even though I want out, I genuinely hope that whichever way it goes its at least a 60% majority with a decent turnout to stop the issue festering.

 

[purplenose]

I am sure you know my thoughts on our Prime minister, and yes he used the promise of a referendum as a vote winner in the last election, he did so in the misguided belief that he could easily lie too and bully the electorate into voting to remain on the back of his "massive" influence and his fantastic negotiating skills within the EU. He like you underestimated the level to which many have become disenchanted with the EU, he underestimated how even today the population of this country are not to fond of being dictated too and taken for idiots. Had for one minute he realised exactly how little he would achieve by threatening us with armagheddon, and how little notice the other European leaders would take of his demands when he went to negotiate his "deal".

Voting out will not solve everything, it will not turn this country into some magical eutopia and nor do those of us who will vote out expect it too. Cameron for all the wrong reasons did exactly the right thing in giving us the vote, why because we are a democratic independent country and membership of the EU is becoming increasingly distant from those democratic values.

Am I right in that you dont live in the UK? Is that the reason you clearly feel it would be fine to vote to remain and at a stroke end this nations history of democracy and freedom?

 

[Helmet Cole]

No, I still live here but I'm off to the southern hemisphere in 2020 so if my out vote turns to shit I don't give a fuck. Laters.

 

[purplenose]

No, I still live here but I'm off to the southern hemisphere in 2020 so if my out vote turns to shit I don't give a fuck. Laters.

Was directed at Ealing mate.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Was directed at Ealing mate.

Fair enough. I'll see that twat when I get there.

 

[purplenose]

People seem misguided in why they want to leave the EU. It seems to be all about British sovereignty and not wishing to take orders and immigrants as dictated to us by some prat in Brussels.

The fact is under the renegotiated terms immigrants will have no reason to come here if they aren't able to contribute towards our GDP and the growth of the nation, and in any case the negative effects we see caused by societal segregation today are actually second and third generation British citizens of foreign descent, not recent entrants. You can't just shut the borders and expect those problems to disappear.

We're at the head of the largest free trade zone in the world, why throw such a thing away for misplaced tub thumping patriotism?

Tub thumping patriotism, it isnt. Wishing to control our own country and to remain an independent democratic country is hardly right wing nationalist doctrine.

 

[purplenose]

Fair enough. I'll see that twat when I get there.

I would stop here if I were you.....big hairy spiders over there.