EU referendum

[stonerblue]

Come on Tim, even you cannot condone such an action.

It calls into account why are we having a referendum at all if the Government are only going to overturn it if the result goes against them!

because its a fucking stupid idea, as i've said from day one.

 

[blueonblue]

Surely an out vote would give the current government carte blanche to introduce any policy they want. Given their recent record wouldn't you say this was a bad thing?

Not anywhere near as big a danger as the EU seeing a remain vote as licence to do what the f*ck they want with impunity, in fact an out vote might tame our politicians a bit as they will no longer have the euro tit to fall back on.
I think the days of the usual suspects are coming to an end in the UK, people are sick and tired of the main parties merry go round, I expect more independents to start taking seats as people use their vote to oust the f*cking lot of them

 

[hgblue]

That more or less reflects what some people including me are finding, I mix with a more than average diversity of people and have run into very few remainians

I think some on here who presume Leave voters are going to suddenly bottle it are in for a surprise.

 

[stonerblue]

That more or less reflects what some people including me are finding, I mix with a more than average diversity of people and have run into very few remainians

Not in my world.
Just come back from an affy in thebeer garden and the majority were for 'in'. Nobody over 70 was though.

 

[BigJoe#1]

because its a fucking stupid idea, as i've said from day one.

What is? The referendum?

I'd be inclined to agree with you, if this Government had sat down and broken the habit of a lifetime and thought through the consequences, they would never in a million years have called it. A minority greater than 40% means there is going to be huge dissatisfaction whoever wins, dissatisfaction that will not be easily appeased, there is a decade of severe discontent and upheaval ahead whoever wins.... possibly longer!

 

[stonerblue]

Not anywhere near as big a danger as the EU seeing a remain vote as licence to do what the f*ck they want with impunity, in fact an out vote might tame our politicians a bit as they will no longer have the euro tit to fall back on.
I think the days of the usual suspects are coming to an end in the UK, people are sick and tired of the main parties merry go round, I expect more independents to start taking seats as people use their vote to oust the f*cking lot of them

But with a remain outcome we will still have our government to act as a buffer. Out vote leaves us with just the one bunch of sheister tosspots and nobody to stop them.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Camerons so called scare mongering to frighten Brexiters is doing his own cause no favours at all. He sounds like child in a school debate.

Agreed, I just cringe with embarrassment for him now - his campaign manager obviously wants to leave the eu

 

[mat]

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Just in case there's some BM's who've not released they aren't register to vote in the referendum.

You've got until midnight tommorow.

 

[blueonblue]

How on earth can they be a buffer when they all piss in the same pot, have you seen the Bilderberg guest lists over the years ?, Cable, Osbourne and Balls three political opposites shared a platform for the remainians, they also attended the 2015 Bilderberg divide the world up planning meeting together...

 

[SWP's back]

Camerons so called scare mongering to frighten Brexiters is doing his own cause no favours at all. He sounds like child in a school debate.

His only weapon is fear and he's totally fucked up his campaign.

 

[smudgedj]

His only weapon is fear and he's totally fucked yo his campaign.

Even if he wins the vote the causes of discontent that underlie the leavers stance will remain and everyone will see that Cameron and Osborne have lied and lied to dismiss them. I thought he was a better politician than this.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

.

Wonderful.... Absolutely bloody marvellous.

Currently. The BBC News strap line....

Remain MPs are currently considering using their parliamentary majority for Britain to Remain in the EU if public vote to leave.

BBC News strap line, check it out now 12:30.

Somebody has got to protect the people from themselves! ;)

It seems to me that the people that want "out"..... are voting that way because they want change but without knowing what that change is and what that change is going to cost.. People on both sides agree the EU isnt perfect and we can all see the issues but the "stay" would prefer to be at the table to try and fix them and in the process keep our economy secure.... instead of running away and risking everything (whether that is for the short or long term is an argument for another post!;)....Now I'm starting to sound like Cameron!he!.... but the reality is that for some "leaving" will hit them very hard.....

really enjoying the discussions from the "ins" and the "outs" on this thread....thanks all

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Agreed, I just cringe with embarrassment for him now - his campaign manager obviously wants to leave the eu

I agree, that said Gove's te EU's responsible for international terrorism is at least as bad. Never mind the 80 million Turkish gangsters who arrived this week!!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

His only weapon is fear and he's totally fucked up his campaign.

Probably true but are the Brexiters any better, who have written out of history the Contribution of the Polish to the battle of Brittain and have designated Somalia as part of the EU

 

[SWP's back]

Probably true but are the Brexiters any better, who have written out of history the Contribution of the Polish to the battle of Brittain and have designated Somalia as part of the EU

I'm personally not swayed by either campaign but you're stretching it there.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I'm personally not swayed by either campaign but you're stretching it there.

True but I'm including the Brexiters in this forum as well as Gove / Bojo mob lol!

 

[cibaman]

For anyone that may have doubted that remain MPs would do this, see the link below

The questions I have are...?

1) Are they entitled to do this?

2) If they did it would it be legally binding? They are there to represent the public, nothing more nothing less, if and its a big IF the public do vote to leave can they legally go against public wishes?

This does smell like there is a bit of panic and contingency planning going on. I would be particularly interested in the views of the BM Remainers about this, notably about, why do you think they're taking thus stance and quite simply, is it fair and democratic?

Surely they [the Government] need be more focused on working out how we will move forward rather than concentrating on retrospectively fighting or challenging a [public] defeat. Didn't Ireland and Greece do something similar and reject their referendum results on recent EU votes?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

An out vote wouldn't give the Leavers a blank cheque to negotiate any deal with the EU, no matter how bad that deal is. The deal would still have to be approved by parliament. I cant see how the Remainers could just block a deal without a second referendum. But if Boris is leading the negotiations I could see it ending up with parliament calling a second referendum.

 

[Tuearts right boot]

Agreed, I just cringe with embarrassment for him now - his campaign manager obviously wants to leave the eu

I was listening to him on Radio 2 and after a few minutes turned it off, he was embarrassing, he lacked any sort of commitment, could offer no proof whatsoever, I sort of felt sorry for him but then I remembered how much he earns, what he actually does and I'm paying some of that.

 

[sir baconface]

The alternative would be to use external scrutineers from the former Soviet Union, Zimbabwe or from Iraq when Saddam was in charge. They never had problems with election results going the wrong way.

120% of the electorate agree with this.

 

[FanchesterCity]

As far as I'm concerned, we face an ever growing economic superpower in China (and America isn't going away), and a new form of terrorism - currently from Islamic extremists. For those two reasons, I believe we are going to need our allies more than ever - for collective bargaining, shared intelligence, and quite possibly military and emergency services support.

I'm under no illusions that each nation in Europe has a quite varied set of customs and cultures - we are not alike, but in comparison to the Middle East / Asia / Africa - we have far more in common.

Then I look to a much MUCH longer future and ask 'where will be in 100 years?' - and I think we're almost certainly going to have to come together in come form in the future - either we're going to converge, or diverge, right?

The EU has a whole bunch of issues, it's not an easy task to keep the group together, but there seems to be couple of things that the 'out' guys are hanging their hat on -

1) Greater control of our borders
Hmmm, well, even without the free movement of EU residents, we've not been keeping track of people coming and going. Many people are arriving legitimately, but not choosing to stay here (illegitimately) and we've done a very poor job and rounding up those people overstaying. That's not an EU failing, that's our own failing and it's been going on across multiple governments.

On top of that, 'control' doesn't come for free. We are going to have to check every train / plane / car / bike / lorry at the borders in order to deter illegal immigration. We don't get that control for free - it's going to cost a fortune to get border security up to scratch

2) We'll be governed by elected politicians
Only 66% bothered to vote at the last general election (and that was considered a good turnout!) - suddenly we're concerned about who governs and their mandate to do so?
A large percentage of our laws are common law - developed over time by the courts. They aren't generated by elected politicians.

3) We'll be better off because we can make our own choices
We aren't living in a bubble. Our destiny as a nation isn't just down to our own choices - we are massively at the mercy of other nations whether we are in or out of the EU, but within the EU, we can (in theory) at least benefit from collective bargaining.
There's also an assumption that being out of the EU means we will make BETTER / SMARTER decisions and thus prosper - but that's rather arrogant. There's nothing to say we are any more politically astute than France or Germany, or that our foreign policies are smarter than theirs. We've been quite insistent of military actions across the globe, when our counterparts have expressed caution. We've also let our manufacturing industry dwindle and our natural resources are diminishing - which is not ideal for a nation trying to 'go it alone'.

4) Immigration of EU citizens is crippling us.
Ok - I accept that concern - but that's not making EU membership a bad thing, it's making that single aspect a bad thing. In which case, let's try and find a way to resolve that issue from within the EU. And let us not forget, many Brits are working or studying abroad under the same freedoms. It's not all a one way street, whatever you decide.

5) The EU is corrupt and wasteful.
Very probably. I think precisely the same of UK governments though.