EU referendum

[Tanzeylee]

plans to extend the time to register to vote...

not suprised as its the kids who didnt register, and they are the ones most likely to vote remain
(which makes the angry white middle aged mens rallying cry to vote leave 'for your children and grandchildren' amusing)

still think young peoples vote should count more, the core vote for leave will be dead before the disaster of a leave vote truly hits home, not like a GE where its 5 years of disaster

Just spoke to my son and 75% of his mates are voting out all late teens early 20s, not one angry white middle aged man between them.

 

[blueonblue]

So why is the answer not to collaborate with like-minded people in the EU and reform it from within?

There are no reforms to be had from the EU, have you not learned even that from call me daves begging exercise ?, its NOT a gathering of nations with a common self interest to trade, there are no like minded people in positions to do anything to change the course the EU is dead set on.

The EU is the creature of the money men, not the countries in it.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Germany and Poland - what could go wrong?

5 4 on penalties I expect....;)

 

[Chippy_boy]

There are no reforms to be had from the EU, have you not learned even that from call me daves begging exercise ?, its NOT a gathering of nations with a common self interest to trade, there are no like minded people in positions to do anything to change the course the EU is dead set on.

The EU is the creature of the money men, not the countries in it.

Utter rubbish. I can't put it any more bluntly than that. They very LAST thing it is is a bunch of "money men". I've never heard such tripe.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

The EU is anti Union...this is a fact not an opinion...no amount of scare mongering by the remain can say otherwise...because it's been anti Union way before a referendum has been called

Genuine question......Why would the TUC say this then mate?...no one is arguing that EU has it issues but for me, "staying" is the "safer" option...and the lesser of 2 evils.....

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Genuine question......Why would the TUC say this then mate?...no one is arguing that EU has it issues but for me, "staying" is the "safer" option...and the lesser of 2 evils.....

This explains it better than I can..the TUC still have grave concerns about the EU and are still not sure which way members will vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/15/trade-union-uk-euopean-union-tuc-referendum

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

I agree that it's naturally the kids that will bare the brunt of the result but why should there vote count more?

We've had over 600 pages of argument and counter argument here and I don't know what the average age of posters are but maybe around 45 lets say , one thing that has remained fairly constant is that people are drawing their arguments in the main part as to how our relationship with the eu has effected us through our life experiences and trying to use that information to guess at what tomorrow may bring in or out.


About time the left woke up -

Excellent comments mate.....and Good guess by the way!;).....I'm early 40's, with a family.....Not much point me linking or copying anymore reports trying to strengthen my argument to vote in because feel people listen only to what they want to and at the end of the day everyone will vote on their own life experiences and do a risk/reward on their own personal situation anyway....for example: one of the first comments I saw you make(think it was you?;), which I respected a great deal was when you said you would think strongly about voting out but likely to vote in because of concerns over risking customers investments...this showed me we all have to way up the pros and cons to our vote and how it will impact our own situation.....for my own situation the EU might not be perfect and has some strange ways but (only my opinion based on my own research and balancing the risk/reward) is that voting to "stay" is Best for me and for the family....staying in my opinion is the "safer" option........Listening to all the "outs" in tv question time, in the news and forums etc...its clear we'll be stepping out into the unknown....no one has a clear plan for when we leave and no one knows when/how or what any new agreements will be because its never done before....I can only bet on, what I see and what I know.....I wouldnt be a responsible father, husband etc....if I voted any other way.....so the vote for me is very simple! ;) thanks again for your input to this thread....I for one appreciate it!;)

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

This explains it better than I can..the TUC still have grave concerns about the EU and are still not sure which way members will vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/15/trade-union-uk-euopean-union-tuc-referendum

Thanks for the link mate!;)

 

[cibaman]

That's a definite - there will be a window between the announcement of Brexit that the eu will be spitting blood and the French will be the loudest with their threats to try and ward off the Le pen et al from using this result as a springboard for their own referendum. The Germans will just be thinking oh f*ck we're in trouble as we are going to have to align ourselves with Poland and other east European xenophobes to combat the socialist tendencies of the French and Italians.

I expect the EU will be thrown into turmoil if we vote out. It will take them several months to agree what their position will be. The only thing they'll agree on is that the UK will not be allowed to enjoy all of the benefits of membership but with none of the obligations. Similarly I expect that very quickly severe divisions will open up among the Leavers once they have to agree a negotiating strategy (other than we want all of the benefits but none of the obligations).

My guess is that it will all became deadlocked very quickly and the EU will sit back and hope that the continuing uncertainty damages the UK economy to such an extent that there is a 2nd referendum.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This explains it better than I can..the TUC still have grave concerns about the EU and are still not sure which way members will vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/15/trade-union-uk-euopean-union-tuc-referendum

Bizarre, truly bizarre. So the TUC is concerned about erosion of workers' rights and therefore its members may vote out, which would yield a liberated Tory government hell bent on eroding workers' rights far more than the EU ever would. Makes sense??!??!?!

But anyway, I didn't see anywhere in that article that said the EU was anti-union, and it doesn't at all explain why the TUC has 5 pages of articles on its website, with about 10 on each page, EVERY SINGLE ONE of which urges a Remain vote.

As I said elsewhere, be careful what you wish for, mate.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I expect the EU will be thrown into turmoil if we vote out. It will take them several months to agree what their position will be. The only thing they'll agree on is that the UK will not be allowed to enjoy all of the benefits of membership but with none of the obligations. Similarly I expect that very quickly severe divisions will open up among the Leavers once they have to agree a negotiating strategy (other than we want all of the benefits but none of the obligations).

My guess is that it will all became deadlocked very quickly and the EU will sit back and hope that the continuing uncertainty damages the UK economy to such an extent that there is a 2nd referendum.

Very likely imho. Deadlock is pretty much guaranteed when you consider the position either side will be coming from.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

I expect the EU will be thrown into turmoil if we vote out. It will take them several months to agree what their position will be. The only thing they'll agree on is that the UK will not be allowed to enjoy all of the benefits of membership but with none of the obligations. Similarly I expect that very quickly severe divisions will open up among the Leavers once they have to agree a negotiating strategy (other than we want all of the benefits but none of the obligations).

My guess is that it will all became deadlocked very quickly and the EU will sit back and hope that the continuing uncertainty damages the UK economy to such an extent that there is a 2nd referendum.

Or alternatively..nothing will happen and we will all go on with our lives

This reminds me of the millennium..when everyone feared all the computer networks would fail..cash machines would begin dishing out money Willy Nilly and the sky would fall in

It won't

We are a strong nation..both economically and socially..countries want to trade with us..whether we are in or out..we are not suddenly going to become unpalatable..this is not Eurovision

If we remain..fair enough..I'm not going to cry into my beer..if we opt out..I'm not going to break out the party poppers either

We will be fine regardless of the outcome..too many doomsayers in the remain team..who generally..apart from some educated guesses..have no idea what would happen if we left the private schoolboy club

My guess is short term pain..long term gain

We were right about the pound/euro..personally I think we are right about this too

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Bizarre, truly bizarre. So the TUC is concerned about erosion of workers' rights and therefore its members may vote out, which would yield a liberated Tory government hell bent on eroding workers' rights far more than the EU ever would. Makes sense??!??!?!

But anyway, I didn't see anywhere in that article that said the EU was anti-union, and it doesn't at all explain why the TUC has 5 pages of articles on its website, with about 10 on each page, EVERY SINGLE ONE of which urges a Remain vote.

As I said elsewhere, be careful what you wish for, mate.

An out vote will also most certainly lead to the break up of the UK, which in turn will almost certainly create perpetual Tory rule in England and Wales. I don't think they've thought this one through.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Bizarre, truly bizarre. So the TUC is concerned about erosion of workers' rights and therefore its members may vote out, which would yield a liberated Tory government hell bent on eroding workers' rights far more than the EU ever would. Makes sense??!??!?!

But anyway, I didn't see anywhere in that article that said the EU was anti-union, and it doesn't at all explain why the TUC has 5 pages of articles on its website, with about 10 on each page, EVERY SINGLE ONE of which urges a Remain vote.

As I said elsewhere, be careful what you wish for, mate.

The TUC's stance on the EU is mainly down to 'propping up' Labour and trying to make a stance on the subject which has been subtly ducked by Corbyn and the party

I genuinely believe Corbyn is a closet Brexit fan..

Just to clarify I am a Labour supporter and a Corbyn fan..he has supported the PCS for many years along with John McDonnell..both spoke at our conference..but his stance or lack of..on this EU referendum has been cagey to say the least..he knows damn well how damaging it is

As for you not finding information about how anti union the EU is..there are hundreds of websites with evidence supporting it..try google ;-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

An out vote will also most certainly lead to the break up of the UK, which in turn will almost certainly create perpetual Tory rule in England and Wales. I don't think they've thought this one through.

Welsh devolution is a pretty far off possibility don't you think? There was a time when Scottish devolution would have massively favoured the Tories, but since Labour don't have any MP's (to speak of) up there any more, it doesn't help. You'd need Wales to go too.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

An out vote will also most certainly lead to the break up of the UK, which in turn will almost certainly create perpetual Tory rule in England and Wales. I don't think they've thought this one through.

Corbyn has created a genuine alternative to the tories rather than the watered down Conservative Party the Blairites created..if the tories fuck up..which they are doing a pretty good job of at the moment..it's not a huge leap to contemplate a substantial swing in the voting public towards the left if dissatisfaction kicks in

You're scaremongering mate ;-)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Welsh devolution is a pretty far off possibility don't you think? There was a time when Scottish devolution would have massively favoured the Tories, but since Labour don't have any MP's (to speak of) up there any more, it doesn't help. You'd need Wales to go too.

I'm not suggesting Wales would devolve -hence my 'England and Wales' reference. I think that's hugely unlikely and I don't think there's anything approaching critical mass in the Principality for such an outcome. I don't think it would be required. I would say that the point re: Scottish MP's is moot, as the SNP MPs are never going to side with the Tories, so they serve as part of the anti-Tory block in any event.

The recent boundary changes have greatly assisted the Tories, as does FPTP. I doubt you'd see a Labour government in a generation at least if Scottish independence happened.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Corbyn has created a genuine alternative to the tories rather than the watered down Conservative Party the Blairites created..if the tories fuck up..which they are doing a pretty good job of at the moment..it's not a huge leap to contemplate a substantial swing in the voting public towards the left if dissatisfaction kicks in

You're scaremongering mate ;-)

It's a huge leap, pal.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

It's a huge leap, pal.

You underestimate a pissed off British public..most elections are greeted with apathy..low turn outs..if the tories fuck up significantly..I think you would be surprised

 

[FanchesterCity]

Corbyn has created a genuine alternative to the tories rather than the watered down Conservative Party the Blairites created..if the tories fuck up..which they are doing a pretty good job of at the moment..it's not a huge leap to contemplate a substantial swing in the voting public towards the left if dissatisfaction kicks in

You're scaremongering mate ;-)

Corbyn's not had that effect on me... I think the Labour party's gone from a limp wristed and uninspiring leader to a limp wristed, uninspiring, lesser spotted leader with a beard. I'm a labour voter by the way, but rapidly considering the 'none of the above' party.

And - although the referendum isn't a party politics issue, it's largely been the Tory and UKiP show, with a cameo appearance from Ed Balls. You'd almost be forgiven for thinking Labour was in hiding hoping to avoid any fallout.