EU referendum

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Thought Gisela Stuart was excellent tonight

 

[grunge]

The money was not 21 million. it was equal to UK investment up to 21 million. and that money was considerably less than we pay. It was also not a one off gift. It was allocated from a fund for just that purpose.

Of course it is, did you think they would just return the entire contribution beacuse of one incident?

And yes it was from a fund that we and every other country put into.

Ask your self this, do you think the gov would have given that 21m the same if we were not in the EU?

 

[inchy14]

Well - I'm not saying that is ACTUALLY happening, just that the economic theory of that is correct, and perfectly possible. Everybody is taking out more than they put in because we are making the money not from each other, but from the external countries - like China, or USA etc. We're bulk buying and sharing the benefit of an overall lower cost, and we are fixing our prices between us so that the Americans can't play off one country against another and drive down our export prices.

Of course someone else is losing out - just not us in the EU.

That's the 'theory' or whole premise of the EU single market. It's another matter whether it's actually working or not!

Note:
'Price fixing' is illegal - I only used that term loosely, but we are essentially 'controlling' the EU market as one entity to stop ourselves being bullied individually - once again though - in theory!

Tell that to the Greeks!!!

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Anyone just see the interview on BBC2 about University leaders?...if I heard right, university leaders across the country have started lobbying staff/Uni members to vote "stay" as EU contribute towards their funding/research across the UK....which they feel will be lost if we leave...hadnt heard this before and only just switched over so didnt get the full conversation. anyone else see it?

 

[FanchesterCity]

Top part; they're certainly failing with the weaker countries economical situation as Greece, Portugal, Spain etc. have shown/showing.

It looks to me like it's all falling apart and only us plus Germany are keeping it afloat.

Once we walk the rest will collapse like a house of cards imo.

The banking crises didn't help anybody and we all suffered as a result. Although the likes of Greece are in a mess, we don't know how much more of a mess they'd be in outside of the EU (or for that matter, how much better off).
However, with any club that aims to look after each other, sooner or later, the weaker contributors start to be despised, particularly when everybody is struggling. Suddenly 'every man for himself' instinct starts kicking in. It seems it's as prevalent in huge economic unions as it in a small group of mates putting into a kitty. Human nature eh? ;-)

 

[FanchesterCity]

Tell that to the Greeks!!!

I tried, but they seem to think I'm talking another language!

 

[grunge]

Top part; they're certainly failing with the weaker countries economical situation as Greece, Portugal, Spain etc. have shown/showing.

It looks to me like it's all falling apart and only us plus Germany are keeping it afloat.

Once we walk the rest will collapse like a house of cards imo.

To be honest that's actually a good reason to stay in. The global economic carnage that would cause would be horrific

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Of course it is, did you think they would just return the entire contribution beacuse of one incident?

And yes it was from a fund that we and every other country put into.

Ask your self this, do you think the gov would have given that 21m the same if we were not in the EU?

Also, if we enter into a the single market at the same cost as Norway - there would be no fund to distribute to improve Manchester. It would be improving Munich or Malmo instead!

 

[FanchesterCity]

EU aside, and when this has all settled... there's an awful lot of bitter infighting between members of the same party. Those rifts won't mend quickly! this is damaging, particularly to the Tory party.

 

[dronefromsector7G]

I tried, but they seem to think I'm talking another language!

Maybe they've lost their marbles?

 

[FanchesterCity]

To be honest that's actually a good reason to stay in. The global economic carnage that would cause would be horrific

Yes I mentioned that earlier. If the EU collapses, we can't stand laughing, it will be disaster for us too. We need our counterparts to be prosperous (as they need us to be). If EU based businesses have problems, people lose their jobs in the UK too.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Maybe they've lost their marbles?

They don't urn enough.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

The banking crises didn't help anybody and we all suffered as a result. Although the likes of Greece are in a mess, we don't know how much more of a mess they'd be in outside of the EU (or for that matter, how much better off).
However, with any club that aims to look after each other, sooner or later, the weaker contributors start to be despised, particularly when everybody is struggling. Suddenly 'every man for himself' instinct starts kicking in. It seems it's as prevalent in huge economic unions as it in a small group of mates putting into a kitty. Human nature eh? ;-)

They would have devalued the Drachma and would never have been able to borrow money at ridiculously low rates in the first place with no checks and balances as Greek bonds were priced at the same rates as all other euro zone bonds - they would be no where near in the same mess that I guaranty you. I've said it before all these debates and problems we have are from the complete hash up of the euro construct.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I think id trust a national survey by a highly reputable source over some anecdotal evidence, what you see isn't what is happening around the country, it's one tiny sample.

The one tiny sample as you put it is and will affect an awful lot of people. Then again who am I to let my mk1 eyeballs doubt a trustworthy national survey? Perish the thought.

 

[FanchesterCity]

They would have devalued the Drachma and would never have been able to borrow money at ridiculously low rates in the first place with no checks and balances as Greek bonds were priced at the same rates as all other euro zone bonds - they would be no where near in the same mess that I guaranty you. I've said it before all these debates and problems we have are from the complete hash up of the euro construct.

That's way beyond me mate!

 

[Chippy_boy]

QED

Glad I could help.

 

[squirtyflower]

As I said, bye.

To the EU

 

[Chippy_boy]

To the EU

Not happening pal.

 

[squirtyflower]

Not happening pal.

Well you'll be happy then

 

[Blue Smarties]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.