EU referendum

[The Doctor]

Sturgeon and Eagle hate Tories so much they would prefer to be governed by Brussels rather than Westminster!
Amber Rudd hates Boris
The consequence was nothing positive from remain about the EU
Boris' two very able ladies were brilliant Andrea Leadson especially star of the debate
Etchingham (who I am a fan of) was poor in her task last night
Then BBC QT what a debacle that was whole programme uncontrollable
Love Izzard in his day job but he behaved like a boorish yob last night

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Got a feeling the remain camp are keeping their big guns till towards the end - a long list of businesses that will state that if the UK vote leave they will relocate...

I think its going to be close but can see more and more "leave" MP's coming out and swapping sides now that its getting closer.....Like MP Sarah Wollaston yesterday, she swapped over to "stay" because she was fed up of the Lies people are getting sold from the "leave" campaign........"if you in a position where you cant hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you cant be campaigning for that organisation"

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Funny how your own position distorts how you see things. I can't stand the woman myself, and yet I thought she was the best of the six by a country mile. And rather than being a hypocrite, I think she's being INCREDIBLY principled. If the Leave camp were to win, the possibility of another Scottish referendum goes up enormously, and the likelihood of her winning it too. The fact she's campaigning for remain is a testament to her sticking up for her principles.

Principled ? That to me seemed like political broadcast by the SNP on a left versus right issue, apart from migration issues you could say her arguments against westminister in the Indy ref are completely interchangeable with The leave campaigns against Brussels. She does not have the full backing of the SNP because of this stance because it simply doesn't make sense to swap London for Brussels.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What the posts over the past few pages in particular have demonstrated is that unless you are in the 15% or whatever the number is who are undecided, everyone else is COMPLETELY polarized in their opinions and to be honest there's really no point in debating. It's a waste of time and effort. People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they want.

The Doctor, saying Andrea fucking Leadson was the star of the debate??? My god.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Tim, on your first para I think we do send approximately £350m a week. The inward investment us just that, it's the EU giving money to British projects. As I understand it, the rebate is retrospective, Ie you get a refund based on the previous years contributions. Whether that rebate is in the form of cash based on the previous years payment, or whether is discounted against the current years payment I really don't know, either way it does affect the overall amount we pay in and get back.

Realistically we should be talking about £10.5bn nett contribution plus £4.5bn or £5.5bn whichever is the inward investment amount, or just talking about the £10.5bn with a pledge that the inward investment (to farmers in the form of CAP payments etc) would continue. The problem with the last point is that Breaxit is not a political party so it cannot commit yo what the Conervatives, Labour or any other party will do. All it can do I'd highlight her potential opportunity presented by our leaving!

I think you are right about the timing of the rebate but that money doesn't leave the Treasury. I think Andrew Neil referred to it as an abatement and Farrage corrected the journo from the Daily Telegraph last night.

Yes there is also £5bn or so investment to the UK (that we've paid to the EU). So roughly £15bn goes but we pay £10 billion or so net.

What I was referring to when I said we would probably have spend some the £10 billion ourselves (on similar things to the EU) is on things like Summits and campaigns (possibly climate change, terrorism, human rights, people trafficking etc); and the EU also spends some of our net contribution on Overseas aid (Although IMHO we spend enough on this ourselves).

So the fat end of £10 billion is left but this gets more or less wiped out if we have to pay the same membership fee for access to the single market as Norway (based on cost per person). People argue that we are bigger than Norway so would pay less per capita and others argue that we would pay more by insisting we won't accept free movement of people.

Give it take a billion or two our "saving" on the cost of EU membership
won't exist.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

.

After the rebate the figure is around £15.2billion

Obviously this is looking back at recent figures. It's likely to rise in the future, as it has done in the past

Hi mate....can only go off the words that came directly from Brois Johnson's mouth last night.....10.6billion........and I can only go off what Business for Britain (his supporters) can tell us...that it could cost 7.4billion in traiff charges.....The 10.6billion saving to use for our country, our NHS, our services.... is a lie mate....and those figures were straight from the horse's mouth! Not trying to agree or disagree with you, just passing on what the Boris and his supporters have told us.....cheers mate...

 

[Chippy_boy]

Principled ? That to me seemed like political broadcast by the SNP on a left versus right issue, apart from migration issues you could say her arguments against westminister in the Indy ref are completely interchangeable with The leave campaigns against Brussels. She does not have the full backing of the SNP because of this stance because it simply doesn't make sense to swap London for Brussels.

The fact remains that she's campaigned all her working life for an independent Scotland and would have a very good chance of getting it if she helped to promote the Leave side. That she's not even keeping schtum, she's actively campaigning to Remain, tells you just how strongly she feels about it.

Why she feels so strongly about Remain is very likely down to the reasons you suggest. She's terrified of what a right wing Tory government would do to the social legislation our country enjoys. I wonder if that's why the TUC and pretty much every union going are strongly backing remain?

Careful what you wish for Leavers, careful what you wish for.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

What the posts over the past few pages in particular have demonstrated is that unless you are in the 15% or whatever the number is who are undecided, everyone else is COMPLETELY polarized in their opinions and to be honest there's really no point in debating. It's a waste of time and effort. People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they want.

The Doctor, saying Andrea fucking Leadson was the star of the debate??? My god.

Come on man...even at your most bias...you can't say remain covered themselves in glory last night...most of the time it was crap digs at Boris for cheap laughs

Even if I was completely neutral...watching that I would have sided with Leave...the remain came across as aggressive and just spouted that we should remain without giving any good reasons for doing so other than 'It's better to be within the EU' they were piss poor

Meanwhile on the beeb...Eddie Izzard..I actually like the guy...but fuck me hahaha

 

[Chippy_boy]

you can still get pretty much 3-1 on leave - the bookies are certain of the result

I draw some comfort from that, Monkfish, but I wonder how much that is skewed by bigger bets being placed on Remain, rather than more bets? You bet £1,000 and ten people bet £10 and the odds will be much shorter on the £1,000 side and yet a subsequent vote would yield a win for the £10 side.

The "rich" are strongly favouring leave, whereas the "poor" are strongly favouring Remain

 

[Tim of the Oak]

What the posts over the past few pages in particular have demonstrated is that unless you are in the 15% or whatever the number is who are undecided, everyone else is COMPLETELY polarized in their opinions and to be honest there's really no point in debating. It's a waste of time and effort. People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they want.

The Doctor, saying Andrea fucking Leadson was the star of the debate??? My god.

Good post. I agree with the Brexiters that the 3 remain on the ITV debate wernt great and Eddie Izzard was woeful. That said, I must have missed the Brexiters applaud Hilary Benn for his excellent contribution to Question Time last night. Credit goes to BigJoe for recognising the despicable act from the Daily Telgraph tweeting about the Paris terrorists atrocities!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Come on man...even at your most bias...you can't say remain covered themselves in glory last night...most of the time it was crap digs at Boris for cheap laughs

Even if I was completely neutral...watching that I would have sided with Leave...the remain came across as aggressive and just spouted that we should remain without giving any good reasons for doing so other than 'It's better to be within the EU' they were piss poor

Meanwhile on the beeb...Eddie Izzard..I actually like the guy...but fuck me hahaha

Didn't watch Question Time, but regards the debate I don't think either side did particularly well, but HONESTLY I thought the Remain side were much better. Both the women on the Leave side were truly terrible I thought and that wanky slogan, "take back control" dear god, did that grate or what.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

What the posts over the past few pages in particular have demonstrated is that unless you are in the 15% or whatever the number is who are undecided, everyone else is COMPLETELY polarized in their opinions and to be honest there's really no point in debating. It's a waste of time and effort. People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they want.

The Doctor, saying Andrea fucking Leadson was the star of the debate??? My god.

I agree mate....I've already stopped posting most of the reports I find because I know most have already formed an opinion and they feel everything else must be a lie....but as you say, I guess this thread/debate is good for those that still dont know...

 

[cibaman]

The fact remains that she's campaigned all her working life for an independent Scotland and would have a very good chance of getting it if she helped to promote the Leave side. That she's not even keeping schtum, she's actively campaigning to Remain, tells you just how strongly she feels about it.

Why she feels so strongly about Remain is very likely down to the reasons you suggest. She's terrified of what a right wing Tory government would do to the social legislation our country enjoys. I wonder if that's why the TUC and pretty much every union going are strongly backing remain?

Careful what you wish for Leavers, careful what you wish for.

It may be a principled stance on her part, but I don't think she had much option. If we do vote out and the SNP use that as justification for a 2nd referendum, they have to be able to say that they campaigned actively to Remain. Otherwise it would just be seen as naked opportunism.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Can any of the Brexiters please explain to me why if we came out of the EU there would be no border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland but integral members of the EU (France and Belgium) should have had a Berlin Wall dividing themselves for the past 40 years?

I won't be too sad whichever way the vote goes. I might have a wry grin for a couple of mates (of Asian Orgin) who will probably vote out because if Brexit begins on 24th June, it will be their first day as second class citizens in their own country!

 

[cibaman]

If Germany allows the EU to negotiate a trade deal that results in German car manufacturers having a 9.8% tariff imposed on their exports to the UK I'll go to work wearing a United top.

That's a very safe bet. If we ever reach the point that tariffs look likely, there'll be a 2nd referendum and we'll be staying.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

I might have a wry grin for a couple of mates (of Asian Origin) who will probably vote out because if Brexit begins on 24th June, it will be their first day as second class citizens in their own country!

Last time I heard...Asia wasn't in Europe

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Last time I heard...Asia wasn't in Europe

They are born and bred in England. Following project immigration, a lot of ignorant people could see them and others like them as foreigners. I was just pointing out the irony of the situation.

I have always been willing to discuss immigration and I hate do gooders but the tone of the campaign is a piss take. The last words of an audience member on Question Time last night were, "dilute the population". Well done Farrage, Bojo & Govey!

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

They are born and bred in England. Following project immigration, a lot of ignorant people could see them and others like them as foreigners. I was just pointing out the irony of the situation.

I have always been willing to discuss immigration and I hate do gooders but the tone of the campaign is a piss take. The last words of an audience member on Question Time last night were, "dilute the population". Well done Farrage, Bojo & Govey!

Come on!!

Immigration is a small consideration in this decision at best...it's only an issue so the remain can play the racist card...most just want out so we can govern ourselves rather than putting our countries finances in the hands of faceless Brussels bureaucrats...workers rights...wages...being able to run our country as we see fit...and the absolute certainty that the EU is going to go tits up in the near future...dragging us and several billion pounds of our money with it

To say British born Asians will feel like foreigners in their own country is absolutely ludicrous...there are plenty of countries outside of the EU who have immigrant populations...the EU is a fucking trade agreement FFS...we are still part of Europe

 

[sir baconface]

Last time I heard...Asia wasn't in Europe

Know your geography.

 

[Monkfish]

Come on!!

Immigration is a small consideration in this decision at best...it's only an issue so the remain can play the racist card...most just want out so we can govern ourselves rather than putting our countries finances in the hands of faceless Brussels bureaucrats...workers rights...wages...being able to run our country as we see fit...and the absolute certainty that the EU is going to go tits up in the near future...dragging us and several billion pounds of our money with it

To say British born Asians will feel like foreigners in their own country is absolutely ludicrous...there are plenty of countries outside of the EU who have immigrant populations...the EU is a fucking trade agreement FFS...we are still part of Europe

Immigration a small decision? You see the Leave advert last night? It was the only issue.