Nothing said on here is going to change the result one iota, and given that the majority of people on here have completely blinkered and bigoted views, there's really no point in continuing.
Actually CB, I genuinely agree with SBF and I do enjoy your positive contributions (unlike some of th other Remainers). Go have a good old fashioned British cuppa and come back and challenge us. I mean it!You don't seem to understand that the right wing press are not being objective, do you. Or perhaps you do, and chose to ignore the fact. Whatever, I really am getting to the point of being beyond caring. Nothing said on here is going to change the result one iota, and given that the majority of people on here have completely blinkered and bigoted views, there's really no point in continuing.
In fact, as I type, I'm realising, I am out. I can't debate with idiots any longer (and I am not including YOU in that category by the way). If people want to vote leave because they hate Cameron, go ahead. I'd prefer a more right wing leader anyway.
Chin up, mate. It's not surprising that the more voluble posters are those who are strongly committed one way or the other.
FWIW, I disagree with almost all of your posts but enjoy reading them because you have something worthwhile to contribute.
Life will go on whichever way people choose to vote on the 23rd June.
A lot of it is relative as posters probably realise. For example, I can't see any Government cutting spending on the NHS but the ageing population and the increasing number of conditions that we can treat means NHS inflation runs far higher than the wider economy.
I can't see pensions being cut either - at least by the front door. Whether we are in the EU or not people are being expected to work longer.
So you despise Bojo whose dyed his hair for years then?
Your question assumes a position and is phrased in a way that I don't accept.
Companies should pay the going rate for the work that needs to be done. If we deem as a society that the rates the bottom end are too low to sustain a quality of life that we think is appropriate then yes, the government should help those people with appropriate financial support.
I'd like to think that there are significantly better reasons to despise Johnson.
Isn't this a bit of a fiasco because the Conservatives didn't really expect to win the election, the referendum promise was to keep the party united before the election, and the expectation was that they'd never have to enact it. Once they won, it was always going to be awkward, not least because it gives a platform to those who don't really have one otherwise.
I'd like to think that there are significantly better reasons to despise Johnson.
Isn't this a bit of a fiasco because the Conservatives didn't really expect to win the election, the referendum promise was to keep the party united before the election, and the expectation was that they'd never have to enact it. Once they won, it was always going to be awkward, not least because it gives a platform to those who don't really have one otherwise.
True. My Bojo's hair products line was a bit of a gag!
You may be right about the Tory leadership and the referendum but (although I'm not a fan) I expected better from them. That's because, for example, they had the foresight to rout the Lib Dems by making them liars in relation to student tuition fees
- with students being a big part of the electorate for decades.
As you say, Cameron couldn't do much about being pressured into calling a referendum and wanted to keep the party United but it was the double whammy with his immigration pledge where he messed it up.
Yes but your name sums up where labour led by Corbyn are unfortunately ...
Johnson probably has a better idea of where the north of England is than Corbyn. He is too busy enjoying his north London dinner parties.....
Corbyn does not know what hard work is, he is the laziest leader I have ever seen of any political party. I see the remainers are urging him to get involved as the north of England they think holds the key to the decision. Well nobody listened to our concerns during the election so why should it change now..... And the truth is Corbyn could not really give a shit whether we are in or out.
I just think Cameron is swayed by populism and doesn't have any principles other than helping his mates out. He's a useful figurehead for the powers behind the throne who need a new one within 3 years.
I think that's harsh on the LibDems, they stopped a lot of madness but had to give ground on other issues. The media made sure only the backtracking were shouted about.
You're another leave voter with eyes closed and hands over your ears then?
The UK has less money WHEN the economy tanks, and derrrr, funding the NHS gets even more difficult. Not that your bothered about that at all, clearly.
Can you justify that 90% figure? Or is it just plucked out of thin air?Hi mate...it really is that simple for me too!;)....Economy is going to be weaker "short term"...over 90% of the independent experts agree...
Just occasionally an issue arises which is bigger than the normal toing and froing of political debate. We're being advised by the so called experts that we're all doomed if we vote to leave, but the thing is, we're not a bunch of sheep who'll do as they're told by their supposed betters, we've all got minds of our own and we can see that this decision is far more complicated than the experts are making out. We also know we've been advised by the majority of experts in the past that failing to join the Euro would lead to disaster. If we vote to leave there are a great many things that may happen during the two years that we'll be negotiating our exit. People say that the EU must introduce punitive tariffs to discourage others from following, and they assume that we're all too stupid to understand this logic. Things is, we're not negotiating with some dictator who can make an instant decision and implement it without any fear of this decision being challenged. We're negotiating with 27 other countries and for some of those countries punitive tariffs would be a disaster. Also, imagine what would be the response of the British consumer if it became clear that a major trading partner was vindictively trying to hurt this country for political reasons. There would be a massive backlash against them with many people feeling so strongly that there would be an effective boycott of that countries goods. Could any major trading partner afford for this to happen? Could the EU even reach a consensus about what their negotiating position should be? Remember we do have friends and allies within the EU who will realise that the path we're now treading they may one day follow. Also, there are major EU countries facing a strong demand from their electorate for their own referendum on EU membership. If these countries also vote to leave during the negotiating period what then? So those who snear at out voters because they believe that the outcome is obvious should realise that the situation is much more complicated than simply repeating the mantra that the majority of experts think it would be bad therefore it would be bad, and understand that there are people on the other side of the argument who maybe, just maybe, have just as good a handle on what the result of an out vote would be, and have come to their decision because they believe it's in the best interests of this country and Europe as a whole.Hi mate...it really is that simple for me too!;)....Economy is going to be weaker "short term"...over 90% of the independent experts agree....anyone that wants to use the line..."economists have been wrong before" really is just closing their eyes and ears to the true debate here.....If someone breaks their leg and gets a 2nd, 3rd,4th, 5th opinion on the injury and every Doctor is saying its broken, then you listen.....if you still question the facts they telling you?.....then you might as well give up! Economists have been wrong before but dont think I've seen such a general agreement right across the board, like I have on this subject......Really couldnt care less about anything else people want to argue about in this vote, for me it starts and stops with the economy.....Maybe "long term" we are will be better off out of the EU but as none of us know what the "long term" holds. I voting on the "short term" .........and thats weaker economy which means risks to jobs, risks to services if we leave....and thats all I need to know....I've seen no agreement in law to say we could not leave EU in 5years if things started to go pair shaped in europe, like many of the "outs" use as a arguement......this isnt a one off vote that could never happen again....Any new party that is voted in every 4 years could in reality have being in or out as one of their policies......I've already seen reports that the "leave" will push for another referendum in 2020 election if the "stay" win....what a joke we will turn out to be to the rest of the world.....
Hi mate...it really is that simple for me too!;)....Economy is going to be weaker "short term"...over 90% of the independent experts agree..../QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TRUE BLUE NO1, .I've already seen reports that the "leave" will push for another referendum in 2020 election if the "stay" win....what a joke we will turn out to be to the rest of the world.....
LOL at the sheer stupidity of that statement. It's Michael Owen-esque....you just love to disagree with people that don't share your same opinions!.....
Summary of views:
- Brexit will result in a better economic outcome than remaining in the EU.
- Economic forecasts (based on proven financial modelling by Patrick Minford) show that on leaving the EU:
- Output grows 2%
- Competitiveness rises 5%
- Real disposable wages up 1.5%
- Exchange rate falls 6%
- Inflation and interest rates rise to 2-3% range
- Current account improves to -1.5% of GDP
- Unemployment reduced by 0.2% (75,000 on benefit count)
Your funny. Where do you get that from?
The remain campaign in a nutshell.What a classic, Camerons face was a picture...
Absolutely classic line from Andrew Marr minutes ago, whilst interviewing Cameron he said "the public are begining to get fed up of your scare tactics and they have stopped believing you. You are begining to come across as saying vote remain or the puppy gets it"