EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

The problem with this referendum is that no-one really understands the issues, unlike a General Election where we know what the contesting parties stand for in theory. Whether these parties deliver is another matter but that's another story. The difference with this referendum is that the parties themselves are split, leaving some strange allegiances between right and left. My own fear is that the general public, starved of any meaningful information as to the effect of leaving or remaining , may just allow the argument to descend into the lowest form of intelligence and to focus their attentions onto the control, or lack of control of immigration.

Brexiters understand the issues clearly , the GFC is the EU's fault, the Syrian problem is the EU's fault, Britains century plus economic decline is the EU's fault, education and health problems are the EU's fault, decline of industry EU's fault, it's black and white a century of problems will be solved overnight. Best of all you don't even need a strategy or any post EU policy too solve things like the deficit as the sudden sweeping freedom that will change all our lives will solve them all. It really is as easy as that...
Or so I am told .........

This will be met with sarky c moments that I can do better, but with one exception in hundreds of pages of this not one brexiter has addressed what happens afterward and how to solve the major structural issues facing the uK and frankly the Inners aren't much better judging by the public debate.

 

[EalingBlue2]

So this government memo claims Britain is losing out to the tune of £2.5bn in trade deals with South American countries because all 28 member states cannot agree the terms. The countries that cannot agree are doing so to protect their farmers - understandably. But we are having to pay the artificially high prices because we are members of the EU.

Don't forget this is a government finding!

From the Daily Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/trade-wars-memo-shows-eu-is-costing-uk-billions/

A secret government memo today reveals how a trade war between European Union countries is damaging the British economy.

The damning Whitehall assessment – seen by the Telegraph – has found that France and other EU countries are hampering new “free-trade” deals because they want to protect their farmers from the extra competition.

David Cameron claims that the power of Brussels to negotiate these free-trade agreements with parts of the world such as the United States is a critical reason why Britain must not leave the EU.

But the memorandum suggests that Britain is losing out on £2.5 billion a year in potential trade as a result of the ongoing delays to a proposed deal between the EU and Latin America.

“The raw truth is that the EU hates genuinely free trade. That holds Britain back, costs us jobs, and keeps prices on the high street artificially high.”Dominic Raab
Under EU treaties, the UK cannot negotiate its own trade arrangements and has to wait until Brussels reaches agreements that are acceptable to all 28 member states, a process that often takes years to complete.

Details of the internal government document, written earlier this year, have come to light at a critical time in the referendum contest, as rival ministers clash in an increasingly bitter campaign over Britain’s future in Europe.

Dominic Raab, the justice minister who is campaigning to leave the EU at next month’s referendum, said: “The raw truth is that the EU hates genuinely free trade. That holds Britain back, costs us jobs, and keeps prices on the high street artificially high.”

What you miss is we probably wouldn't get the same deal outside the EU or as quickly so whilst we are potentially missing this by the EU not signing we are almost certainly not going to get it all by leaving. It could be that outside we could get half of this or no deal at all that is all up in the air. So the article is right but is not necessarily drawing the right counter factual

 

[EalingBlue2]

If you don't know it's no surprise you lost

The British values of starting wars in the Middle East them blaming the Germans? Or the British values of playing a huge role In a global financial crisis and then blaming the Germans or the British values of writing a constitution for the Germans and imposing it and then blaming the Germans When they stick to it?

 

[inchy14]

Trying to watch the debate currently on newsnight, fuck me Evan Davies is an annoying ****, no one can speak without him interrupting and talking over them, let them all speak ffs.

 

[Carsten75]

Brexiters understand the issues clearly , the GFC is the EU's fault, the Syrian problem is the EU's fault, Britains century plus economic decline is the EU's fault, education and health problems are the EU's fault, decline of industry EU's fault, it's black and white a century of problems will be solved overnight. Best of all you don't even need a strategy or any post EU policy too solve things like the deficit as the sudden sweeping freedom that will change all our lives will solve them all. It really is as easy as that...
Or so I am told .........

This will be met with sarky c moments that I can do better, but with one exception in hundreds of pages of this not one brexiter has addressed what happens afterward and how to solve the major structural issues facing the uK and frankly the Inners aren't much better judging by the public debate.

How could the EU ever invite Turkey to join? Beggars belief.

 

[aguero93:20]

A month to the day until we get to find out how representative of the UK entire a Bluemoon political poll is, can't wait.

 

[EalingBlue2]

How could the EU ever invite Turkey to join? Beggars belief.

It is them being in NATO that concerns me more. Inviting them to join it they meet all the rules and reform and 28 countries agree is ok with me , but I don't see it happening in decades especially with Erdogan there making it further away every day. I think the intent is to try and pull turkey back from the brink with a carrot not a serious consideration of them joining without huge huge changes domestically and a major change in their doorstep.

But as I say them being in NATO is actually a bigger concern given the politics of their leader and the fact they seem so keen to start trouble with Russia

 

[BlueHammer85]

Brexiters understand the issues clearly , the GFC is the EU's fault, the Syrian problem is the EU's fault, Britains century plus economic decline is the EU's fault, education and health problems are the EU's fault, decline of industry EU's fault, it's black and white a century of problems will be solved overnight. Best of all you don't even need a strategy or any post EU policy too solve things like the deficit as the sudden sweeping freedom that will change all our lives will solve them all. It really is as easy as that...
Or so I am told .........

This will be met with sarky c moments that I can do better, but with one exception in hundreds of pages of this not one brexiter has addressed what happens afterward and how to solve the major structural issues facing the uK and frankly the Inners aren't much better judging by the public debate.

The inners don't need to debate.

We're remaining in Europe whether we like it or not , the Brexiters are just letting off some hot air.

 

[Carsten75]

The inners don't need to debate.

We're remaining in Europe whether we like it or not , the Brexiters are just letting off some hot air.

Exit stage right. Mid Atlantic, or is it left?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Brexiters understand the issues clearly , the GFC is the EU's fault, the Syrian problem is the EU's fault, Britains century plus economic decline is the EU's fault, education and health problems are the EU's fault, decline of industry EU's fault, it's black and white a century of problems will be solved overnight. Best of all you don't even need a strategy or any post EU policy too solve things like the deficit as the sudden sweeping freedom that will change all our lives will solve them all. It really is as easy as that...
Or so I am told .........

This will be met with sarky c moments that I can do better, but with one exception in hundreds of pages of this not one brexiter has addressed what happens afterward and how to solve the major structural issues facing the uK and frankly the Inners aren't much better judging by the public debate.

As aLays, the status quo is "keep on keepin' on," while a change, especially a change of any magnitude, is fraught with future unknowns. Is that a reason to suggest the status quo? I believe not.

Sovereignty either is or is not. The whole "United States of Europe" wet dream is just that. It has created economic wealth for some, while creating a series of have and have not COUNTRIES. That cannot be a recipe for long term success. Britain has always only been a toe-in-the-water European economy, and keeping sterling vice the Euro was a simple easy indicator of Britain's reluctance. It was always just a marriage of convenience, but it is no longer convenience to prop up bankrupt European countries, play second fiddle to Continental politics and watch our billions being flushed down the Central European toilet.

The English Channel protected England from most European invaders for millennia. The free movement of people and monies made that 22 mile stretch of water irrelevant. Hopefully, in the near future, it will once again become a border worth defending against all comers.