EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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andyhinch said:
I'm guessing all the immigrants already here are voting leave to stop immigrants coming over stealing their jobs.
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That's actually the case in some of the interviews I've heard. Some immigrants don't want any more to come because they can see an increase in numbers as queering their pitch.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I can't say with any certainty that it'll be protected if we leave. I completely agree with you that the Tory wolves would love to pounce on the NHS.

But the real point is if they start that process, we can kick them out in 2020, if not before. If the EU stitch up the NHS (or any other public service) through TTIP then it doesn't matter what we do.

It's not much of a choice I agree but I'd prefer to take my chances with the Tories rather than the EU.

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I'll take mine with the EU, :) by the time they sort out TTIP hopefully the tories are history. They will pull every stunt going to stay in until 2020.
The tories are on the blocs with this referendum being the starter pistol for the carve up and once its gone, its gone.
Time is not a commodity on this one.
Corbyn has already said he would block TTIP, so that should swing those truly worried by TTIP.

Prestwich_Blue said:
That's not how the EU legislative process works Ken. The Commission puts forward the proposals but it can do that in one of two ways.

Normally these would go to both the Parliament and the Council of Ministers who would discuss them. If they're not happy they can send them back to the Commission with amendments. They'll then go to a second reading and if they still don't agree it gets dropped. Basically that's not dissimilar to what we have in the UK. In fact it's probably a bit better as the Commission can't steamroller anything through, which the UK government can do.

But for the really strategic stuff, they don't need Parliament to agree, they just need to consult it.

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Moot but as you say is not dissimilar if not better which is the point i have being trying to make.
As for the strategic stuff yes they consult it but they do not push through things that are not acceptable for all which as you say the tories would.
For example the Euro and the zone have not been pushed on us, exploding the EU don't listen to the UK myth, and lets be honest, they are really strategic.
 
[QUOTE="manctheknife, post: 9526062, member: 7816] people know a damn sight more about the machinations of Europe than they did. [/QUOTE]

I am not sure about that. It appears that a lot of lies and half truths, delivered by both sides, have formed a considerable part of the debate. It doesn't help when you have the likes of Boris Johnson responding to well reasoned arguments, raised by academics and institutions, by retorting simply with comments like 'absolute rubbish' and 'poppycock'.

Personally, I feel there are strong arguments/justifications for both leave and remain but the standard of debate has been rather disappointing. To be honest, I am rather embarrassed that those involved are in positions of power. I have heard better quality debates in pubs at around closing time.
 
YPhrunts said:
That's actually the case in some of the interviews I've heard. Some immigrants don't want any more to come because they can see an increase in numbers as queering their pitch.
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Anyone that isn't a British citizen can't vote in this election.
 
Dogtanian said:
Still undecided, I like the concept of the EU I like the freedom it gives but I don't like the unelected officials or president, i worry if I vote in then will the influx from Europe hinder my sons chances of good employment and if I vote out am I hindering my sons options and chances, if I still can't decide by the time I get home then I am just not going to vote
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Strap a pair on kid!..Saddle up and make that X...you can do it. Either way.
 
Dogtanian said:
Still undecided, I like the concept of the EU I like the freedom it gives but I don't like the unelected officials or president, i worry if I vote in then will the influx from Europe hinder my sons chances of good employment and if I vote out am I hindering my sons options and chances, if I still can't decide by the time I get home then I am just not going to vote
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Look at the youth unemployment figures across Europe which are higher in almost all the other member states and then ask yourself what chances has your son got of finding a job in Europe. Unless he's exceptional at what he does and speaks a couple of languages fluently then its a very slim chance he will find employment on the continent. Alternatively the youngsters from the poorer European states want to come here because they cannot find work at home and even if they can it's poorly paid in comparison. I am concerned for the future prospect of my grandchildren for the same reasons. I don't want them to have to accept low wages being kept constantly low by foreign workers.
 
Manc in London said:
[QUOTE="manctheknife, post: 9526062, member: 7816] people know a damn sight more about the machinations of Europe than they did.
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I am not sure about that. It appears that a lot of lies and half truths, delivered by both sides, have formed a considerable part of the debate. It doesn't help when you have the likes of Boris Johnson responding to well reasoned arguments, raised by academics and institutions, by retorting simply with comments like 'absolute rubbish' and 'poppycock'.

Personally, I feel there are strong arguments/justifications for both leave and remain but the standard of debate has been rather disappointing. To be honest, I am rather embarrassed that those involved are in positions of power. I have heard better quality debates in pubs at around closing time.[/QUOTE]


Well then, at the very least we learned that nobody knows what the fuck is going on....whereas before, we just supposed that.
 
This time tomorrow we might not be part of the EU and the year after Trump might be president. Fuck me that would be depressing. Hello 1933.
 
Blue Mooner said:
Ken, I'm fighting a losing battle here. It is so blatantly not the same I'm genuinely astonished that you can't see the difference. So you voted for Afzal Khan representing labour as MEP.

When you voted for him, what EU policies was he promising to implement if elected as the MEP in the EU parliament and under which party in the EU were those policies going to be Implemented?

I suspect the answer is you had no idea because those laws are conceived by the EU commission behind closed doors and then passed to those MEPs to be approved, effectively waved through.
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It is you that is missing the point, the EU policies are the work of the members of the EU, not the work of a particular party as in the UK Parliament.

In the UK the different parties will have their say and you back them or not.
In the EU they are all represented, you align yourself with who you believe in. If you were right wing you go tory and they aline themselves with other tory type parties.
The discussions are then moulded by ALL the parties and those who have a greater vote have a greater say, not like here where what the tories say, goes.
Throw in the mental FPTP system and you end up with a party that has garnered less than 30% of the vote. That cannot happen in the EU as there cannot be an overriding party.
The EU is far more representative and the price is that things move slower but at least the input from all is there.
 
argyle said:
Anyone that isn't a British citizen can't vote in this election.
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I saw an interview with a polish guy who had now aquired a British passport and he said he was voting leave which I thought was odd but as the interview continued he said there were just too many people coming over. Says a lot about solidarity for your kin in the same situation trying to come over and just proves everyone's out for their own back.
 
Blue Mooner said:
Wrong again, the House of Lords under the act of Parliament can veto very few laws.
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Even worse then, we have a dictatorship that can only be changed every 5 years, even the EU listens to all sides.
Whichever way you look at it, it is grim for the UK system and voter. I'll stick with the EU, slow as it maybe.
 
frothy said:
Same here having our dinner in the canteen today 8 of us round the table every one voting leave
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The leavers were asking why I am for remain and saw my points but a couolejust though where they live has changed too much and they blame europe.
The good thing is the discussion was well natured and everybody respected each others choice.

Well just voted after work here in gorton was about 20 others in there, you could see some looks and frowns off people , Iexpect people are trying to read the body language and what others are voting.
 
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