The next Prime Minister of Britain

BobKowalski said:
Largely agree although starting Article 50 is a process you cannot stop which is why no one is in a rush to trigger it. The lack of a clear exit plan or roadmap to leave the EU from the Leave Campaign has proved to be its archilles heel. It's all very well demanding that we leave the EU but not outlining how, when and on what basis reduces it to little more than 17 million 'likes' on Facebook.
Click to expand...

Lol. Likening it to pressing the idiot button on Facebook is a fanciful delusion. It was a referendum, FFS, with 34 million people actually getting off their sofas and up to the polling stations.

How could there possibly have been a detailed roadmap for something so complex, without precedent, in a context that changes by the minute? Would you even want it to be prescribed to the letter or would you want negotiators to show some flexibility and pragmatism? Have you ever taken part yourself in an important negotiation?

There are multiple potential scenarios here. I for one would like to see the situation managed sensibly, not conforming to some rote because someone on the losing side says that's the way it should be.
 
sir baconface said:
Lol. Likening it to pressing the idiot button on Facebook is a fanciful delusion. It was a referendum, FFS, with 34 million people actually getting off their sofas and up to the polling stations.

How could there possibly have been a detailed roadmap for something so complex, without precedent, in a context that changes by the minute? Would you even want it to be prescribed to the letter or would you want negotiators to show some flexibility and pragmatism? Have you ever taken part yourself in an important negotiation?

There are multiple potential scenarios here. I for one would like to see the situation managed sensibly, not conforming to some rote because someone on the losing side says that's the way it should be.
Click to expand...

So leave triggers 'multiple potential scenarios'. And no one on the Leave Campaign thought to at least outline some of these multiple potential scenarios during the campaign? A risk and benefit analysis of say the three most likely scenarios? Not asking for the world here just some provisional guidelines. You know momentous, historic decision yada, yada but no worries vote Leave and then we'll make it up as we go along.

I think the key part of any important negotiation is at least having a fucking clue what you are aiming for prior to starting the negotiations. Care to fill me in on the 'fucking clue' part?
 
rabby said:
There is nothing to back up the claim that once article 50 is triggered it is a process you cannot stop.
We are in uncharted waters here and that is likely to cause a long drawn out process,but make no mistake if it was considered to be of mutual benefit to both sides to close out the process once activated a way would befound,as it invariably is with EU negotiations.
Click to expand...

I would dispute that there is nothing to back up the claim its a process you cannot stop. The wording is clear in that its a two year process and then you are out - agreement or no agreement and no take backs.

But I agree its never been done before so there is no precedent so yes if it was considered to be of mutual benefit to both sides to close out the process a way round it will be found. No one wants either side to be intransigent to the detriment of all.
 
BobKowalski said:
So leave triggers 'multiple potential scenarios'. And no one on the Leave Campaign thought to at least outline some of these multiple potential scenarios during the campaign? A risk and benefit analysis of say the three most likely scenarios? Not asking for the world here just some provisional guidelines. You know momentous, historic decision yada, yada but no worries vote Leave and then we'll make it up as we go along.

I think the key part of any important negotiation is at least having a fucking clue what you are aiming for prior to starting the negotiations. Care to fill me in on the 'fucking clue' part?
Click to expand...

Yes. With pleasure.

The aim is "out", with tariffs that are as close to current free market terms as reasonably attainable. Unlikely to be zero but that was clear when we voted and the vote wasn't purely on economic grounds.

However, if serious concessions were made by EU on (particularly) freedom of movement, I'd be considering a compromise. Hence my flexibility proviso.

If I'd wanted a Simple Simon position, I'd have voted to stay in and settled for whatever the EU tells us and settled for Dave's non-concessions.

So Mr "Fucking Clue", I appreciate your exaggerated concern for order but ask again: have you ever been involved in a serious negotiation yourself?
 
sir baconface said:
Yes. With pleasure.

The aim is "out", with tariffs that are as close to current free market terms as reasonably attainable. Unlikely to be zero but that was clear when we voted and the vote wasn't purely on economic grounds.

However, if serious concessions were made by EU on (particularly) freedom of movement, I'd be considering a compromise. Hence my flexibility proviso.

If I'd wanted a Simple Simon position, I'd have voted to stay in and settled for whatever the EU tells us and settled for Dave's non-concessions.

So Mr "Fucking Clue", I appreciate your exaggerated concern for order but ask again: have you ever been involved in a serious negotiation yourself?
Click to expand...

So your vote 'wasn't purely on economic grounds'. You accept then we will be economically disadvantaged if we left the EU and its single market.

But you are prepared to accept the EU and its single market if we address your number one concern specifically immigration.

Your negotiation stance then is 'I am happy to disadvantage the country economically unless you agree to stop sending me foreign people'

Its subtle. Its nuanced. And sums up the Leave Campaign argument.

Well I think we made progress here.
 
BobKowalski said:
Sky running with leaked email form the Gove camp. Seems the next leader of the Tory Party and next PM has to meet with the approval of the editor of the Daily Mail and Rupert Murdoch...nice to find out who is running things for us
Click to expand...

Boris it is then
 
BobKowalski said:
So your vote 'wasn't purely on economic grounds'. You accept then we will be economically disadvantaged if we left the EU and its single market.

But you are prepared to accept the EU and its single market if we address your number one concern specifically immigration.

Your negotiation stance then is 'I am happy to disadvantage the country economically unless you agree to stop sending me foreign people'

Its subtle. Its nuanced. And sums up the Leave Campaign argument.

Well I think we made progress here.
Click to expand...

No, you haven't made progress at all. You will only make progress when you accept the simple fact that a majority voted in favour of out.

So whatever you or I think now isn't that important in the overall scheme of things. Even so, I'd thank you to stop your clumsy attempt to interpret my view.

Face it, there were people on both sides who didn't see the full picture. That's how these things roll. If you think they were all, or even mostly, on one side, you're just being blinkered.
 
worsleyweb said:
Boris it is then
Click to expand...

Apparently Daily Mail Ed., Murdoch and seemingly Gove don't trust Boris. Can't imagine why. Inference seems they want Boris to 'lead' while Gove pulls the strings and Murdoch pulls his.

Fuck it. Just put the Sun in charge.
 
rabby said:
There is nothing to back up the claim that once article 50 is triggered it is a process you cannot stop.
We are in uncharted waters here and that is likely to cause a long drawn out process,but make no mistake if it was considered to be of mutual benefit to both sides to close out the process once activated a way would befound,as it invariably is with EU negotiations.
Click to expand...

But the overriding rationale for the EU will be to deter any other country from going this route and risk the break-up of the institution, so the benefit to their side will be for the post-article 50 break to happen swiftly and painfully for the UK (even if it causes some lesser economic pain to their own countries)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top