BT Sport

Prestwich_Blue said:
Ask him why I can watch Rugby, Cricket, Golf, Motorsports, Athletics and all sorts of other sports and listen to knowledgeable and articulate commentary with analysts that add to my knowledge of that sport.

Yet when I watch football, I have to put up with inarticulate punditry involving mostly spouting complete nonsense, saying stuff that's blatantly incorrect or repeating clichés I've heard again and again.

Why do the TV companies (and his is the worst, alongside the BBC which isn't a great deal better) seem to assume we're all morons and won't appreciate some less sensationalist but more informed comment?
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This with Bells on.
Fantastic post Colin.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
You seriously believed his answer to the flyer, that one of the world's biggest multinational companies would let an agency put out an advert without them either checking it or giving it their approval?! If anything he should be asked for more detail as to if/how that really happened
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Correct. Somebody at BT would have had to give approval, so who was it and are they still in a job. And who was the agency who designed it and were they given a specific brief or a blank canvas
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Hargreaves is ok.

I don't think that the flyer thing is something to get bogged down in. He's already said that it was an agency who did that and acknowledged the problem, and if he sticks to that, then it just requires more QC from BT.
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I don't agree. BT were responsible for this brochure. They commissioned it, paid for it, and probably sanctioned the content. Blaming the agency just doesn't wash.
 
From Simon Green letter said:
... but we are not inexperienced enough to realise that this is not always achievable all of the time...

With regard to next season I still believe that the best Champions League pundits are those with experience of winning it and at the same time who can instil debate and discussion.
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Ask him why the people who draft his responses cannot put together a sentence that makes sense in English. Or was this written by Rio Ferdinand?

Why do they think that only Champions League winners are able to pass valid comment on Champions League games? And is he aware that Michael Owen is not a Champions League winner?

Due to the shortage of English Champions League winners, why does he not employ more foreign winners, who would be impartial?
 
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If they do not have it already, could they (and Sky) provide a function where the the commentary is switched off if they cannot improve the punditry and commentary. Insisting on having someone who has already WON the ECL makes too small and shallow) in all senses) pool and has no bearing on quality.

I watched yesterday's match on a Sky day pass and shouted my first fuck off when Navas burst down the right wing in a long run while the Scottish co-commentator was still rattling on about Caballero being likely to have more first team chances because of the way Hart played in France, missing a promise attack by City completely. Fifteen minutes and several shouts later, I turned the sound off completely. Different station but same problems.
 
blueyorkie said:
I got this response

Dear Ian,


Thanks for the note regarding Danny Mills and the BT Sport coverage of the Champions League. I appreciate that viewers have opinions that matter and I’ve had 8 separate but similar complaints regarding Danny Mills which I want to provide a consistent response to each.


As you know all broadcasters use many ex-professional footballers all of whom have different but relevant experience in the game and all of whom are asked to express their opinions and react to the action on the field as they see fit. This provides a range of opinion and richness that we feel is important to football coverage on television. At this time of year it is not as easy as you suggest to pick from a list of BT Sport regulars or ex-Manchester City players who you quote. Danny is an ex England and Manchester City footballer who has extensive broadcast experience on radio and television and I am sorry that his interpretation of what he saw does not always agree with yours.


At BT Sport we’d like to have fair and good relations with all sets of supporters all the time but we are not inexperienced enough to realise that this is not always achievable all of the time but we do listen so thanks for the feedback. With regard to next season I still believe that the best Champions League pundits are those with experience of winning it and at the same time who can instil debate and discussion.


Regards


Simon Green
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'This provides a range of opinion and richness'

Does he really believe this? It's apparent blues only see one opinion, consistently provided, it's as if they all go on a training course.

I understand he needs pundits who have authority, legitimised by the success they had, so candidates we propose like Goater etc will just never get the gig. But the way Neville won round a lot of blues is proof this isn't about who you played for, it's about the quality of punditry. We are force fed drivel, the same meaningless insights we could provide each other in the pub.

The wider question is why is the default narrative for the rags positive and ours negative? Especially given our relative performances over the last 3-4 seasons. Ours should be a fairy tale narrative, of fans who never left their club despite our lows and the highs of our neighbours. They have fuck all appreciation of what it was like to share a city with them at that time. Instead all we get is the coin narrative, when after our initial splurge we are now consistent with all major clubs. It's just another way of feeding the negative narrative, players can only come to us for money, despite our obvious success.

I can't believe he is so removed from the experience of his customers.
 
Here are the questions I have sent to Simon Green this morning that he has agreed to answer for publication.

There are a number of pertinent omissions - namely the flyer and McManaman/Mills - but I took them out for balance and because with them in it just looked like a unremitting attack.

1/ While it is obviously important to appeal to every football fan regardless of allegiance would it be fair to suggest that the key demographic for any live game are the people who pay to use your service in order to watch their club?

2/ Prior to this interview I conducted a survey with 50 supporters on two BT Sport pundits and a co-commentator – namely Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand and Michael Owen. I was careful to ask fans of varying ages who support several different Premier League clubs and the questions were put to them neutrally. I am happy to share the data Simon but it is fair to state that the feedback was overwhelmingly negative with many of the responses not fit for print.

You have previously stated the importance of having Champions League winners in the pundit’s chairs - and nobody can dispute the pedigree of these former players nor the experience that pedigree brings – but at what point does gravitas continue to outweigh an acceptable degree of competence in their role?

3/ With hundreds of millions of pounds invested in your Champions League coverage one can only imagine the number of meetings that took place prior to, and during, last season. At any stage did any individual at any level state a concern that it may be problematic to have two Manchester United legends analyse Manchester City matches?

4/ Did the subsequent outcry from City fans surprise you?

5/ Do you believe that Paul Scholes and Rio Ferdinand are capable of being objective in their punditry towards a club they quite openly – and understandably – dislike?

6/ When Rio Ferdinand publicly states that he wants Manchester City to lose prior to the game and when Jake Humphreys jokes to Paul Scholes after a subsequent City win “We should quite rightly praise them…as hard as it is” these are surely candid acknowledgements that impartiality is difficult for the United legends in question? Which begs the query – what on earth are they doing there commenting on a huge night for Manchester City and their multitude of watching supporters?

7/ Many Manchester City supporters have compared BT Sport’s coverage of City’s Champions League games last season to watching their club on MUTV such was the persistent tone of negativity and outright petty digs on occasion. Knowing that these are paying customers to your company how does that personally make you feel?

8/ Why was there such a distinct difference in tone and narrative in your coverage of City in the Champions League and Liverpool in the Europa League last season? While the former was unrelentingly negative to the point of hostility – where even a win felt like a wake afterwards – the other was reverential, celebratory and always partisan. Do you indeed accept there was any difference?

9/ A large number of City supporters believe that this was a deliberate and considered strategy on your part: that BT Sport attempted to curry favour with the larger fanbases of Liverpool, United and Arsenal aware too that City are unpopular with the mainstream audience. How do you respond to this charge?

10/ Deliberate or otherwise BT Sport’s coverage of Manchester City’s Champions League campaign last season has led to Blues cancelling their subscription in droves. Do you believe the relationship between the fifth largest fanbase in the UK and a major broadcasting company has now become irreparable? Do you accept that though every club’s fanbase have grievances with the media we are now in unchartered waters as regards to the severity of this?

11/ What would you say to the City fans who have either cancelled their subscription or are considering doing so ahead of the new season?

12/ Can we expect to see fairer coverage of the club in the future and do you acknowledge the pertinent point that City fans do not want special treatment but only to see the same coverage afforded to their rivals?
 
Lucky Toma said:
Here are the questions I have sent to Simon Green this morning that he has agreed to answer for publication.

There are a number of pertinent omissions - namely the flyer and McManaman/Mills - but I took them out for balance and because with them in it just looked like a unremitting attack.

1/ While it is obviously important to appeal to every football fan regardless of allegiance would it be fair to suggest that the key demographic for any live game are the people who pay to use your service in order to watch their club?

2/ Prior to this interview I conducted a survey with 50 supporters on two BT Sport pundits and a co-commentator – namely Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand and Michael Owen. I was careful to ask fans of varying ages who support several different Premier League clubs and the questions were put to them neutrally. I am happy to share the data Simon but it is fair to state that the feedback was overwhelmingly negative with many of the responses not fit for print.

You have previously stated the importance of having Champions League winners in the pundit’s chairs - and nobody can dispute the pedigree of these former players nor the experience that pedigree brings – but at what point does gravitas continue to outweigh an acceptable degree of competence in their role?

3/ With hundreds of millions of pounds invested in your Champions League coverage one can only imagine the number of meetings that took place prior to, and during, last season. At any stage did any individual at any level state a concern that it may be problematic to have two Manchester United legends analyse Manchester City matches?

4/ Did the subsequent outcry from City fans surprise you?

5/ Do you believe that Paul Scholes and Rio Ferdinand are capable of being objective in their punditry towards a club they quite openly – and understandably – dislike?

6/ When Rio Ferdinand publicly states that he wants Manchester City to lose prior to the game and when Jake Humphreys jokes to Paul Scholes after a subsequent City win “We should quite rightly praise them…as hard as it is” these are surely candid acknowledgements that impartiality is difficult for the United legends in question? Which begs the query – what on earth are they doing there commenting on a huge night for Manchester City and their multitude of watching supporters?

7/ Many Manchester City supporters have compared BT Sport’s coverage of City’s Champions League games last season to watching their club on MUTV such was the persistent tone of negativity and outright petty digs on occasion. Knowing that these are paying customers to your company how does that personally make you feel?

8/ Why was there such a distinct difference in tone and narrative in your coverage of City in the Champions League and Liverpool in the Europa League last season? While the former was unrelentingly negative to the point of hostility – where even a win felt like a wake afterwards – the other was reverential, celebratory and always partisan. Do you indeed accept there was any difference?

9/ A large number of City supporters believe that this was a deliberate and considered strategy on your part: that BT Sport attempted to curry favour with the larger fanbases of Liverpool, United and Arsenal aware too that City are unpopular with the mainstream audience. How do you respond to this charge?

10/ Deliberate or otherwise BT Sport’s coverage of Manchester City’s Champions League campaign last season has led to Blues cancelling their subscription in droves. Do you believe the relationship between the fifth largest fanbase in the UK and a major broadcasting company has now become irreparable? Do you accept that though every club’s fanbase have grievances with the media we are now in unchartered waters as regards to the severity of this?

11/ What would you say to the City fans who have either cancelled their subscription or are considering doing so ahead of the new season?

12/ Can we expect to see fairer coverage of the club in the future and do you acknowledge the pertinent point that City fans do not want special treatment but only to see the same coverage afforded to their rivals?
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Good points we raised – I would also ask him what their interview entails for new pundits, as Scholes (especially), Owen and Ferdinand have zero TV personality and their punditry is woeful... the very things a TV pundit should actually possess!!!
As you mention, their employment is further proof of their pandering to the United fans, as there can be no ther reason for their employment!
 
I'm still waiting for the reply to my complaint to BT sent immediately after the Bayern game. Just had the auto email so far
 
Lucky Toma said:
Here are the questions I have sent to Simon Green this morning that he has agreed to answer for publication.

There are a number of pertinent omissions - namely the flyer and McManaman/Mills - but I took them out for balance and because with them in it just looked like a unremitting attack.

1/ While it is obviously important to appeal to every football fan regardless of allegiance would it be fair to suggest that the key demographic for any live game are the people who pay to use your service in order to watch their club?

2/ Prior to this interview I conducted a survey with 50 supporters on two BT Sport pundits and a co-commentator – namely Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand and Michael Owen. I was careful to ask fans of varying ages who support several different Premier League clubs and the questions were put to them neutrally. I am happy to share the data Simon but it is fair to state that the feedback was overwhelmingly negative with many of the responses not fit for print.

You have previously stated the importance of having Champions League winners in the pundit’s chairs - and nobody can dispute the pedigree of these former players nor the experience that pedigree brings – but at what point does gravitas continue to outweigh an acceptable degree of competence in their role?

3/ With hundreds of millions of pounds invested in your Champions League coverage one can only imagine the number of meetings that took place prior to, and during, last season. At any stage did any individual at any level state a concern that it may be problematic to have two Manchester United legends analyse Manchester City matches?

4/ Did the subsequent outcry from City fans surprise you?

5/ Do you believe that Paul Scholes and Rio Ferdinand are capable of being objective in their punditry towards a club they quite openly – and understandably – dislike?

6/ When Rio Ferdinand publicly states that he wants Manchester City to lose prior to the game and when Jake Humphreys jokes to Paul Scholes after a subsequent City win “We should quite rightly praise them…as hard as it is” these are surely candid acknowledgements that impartiality is difficult for the United legends in question? Which begs the query – what on earth are they doing there commenting on a huge night for Manchester City and their multitude of watching supporters?

7/ Many Manchester City supporters have compared BT Sport’s coverage of City’s Champions League games last season to watching their club on MUTV such was the persistent tone of negativity and outright petty digs on occasion. Knowing that these are paying customers to your company how does that personally make you feel?

8/ Why was there such a distinct difference in tone and narrative in your coverage of City in the Champions League and Liverpool in the Europa League last season? While the former was unrelentingly negative to the point of hostility – where even a win felt like a wake afterwards – the other was reverential, celebratory and always partisan. Do you indeed accept there was any difference?

9/ A large number of City supporters believe that this was a deliberate and considered strategy on your part: that BT Sport attempted to curry favour with the larger fanbases of Liverpool, United and Arsenal aware too that City are unpopular with the mainstream audience. How do you respond to this charge?

10/ Deliberate or otherwise BT Sport’s coverage of Manchester City’s Champions League campaign last season has led to Blues cancelling their subscription in droves. Do you believe the relationship between the fifth largest fanbase in the UK and a major broadcasting company has now become irreparable? Do you accept that though every club’s fanbase have grievances with the media we are now in unchartered waters as regards to the severity of this?

11/ What would you say to the City fans who have either cancelled their subscription or are considering doing so ahead of the new season?

12/ Can we expect to see fairer coverage of the club in the future and do you acknowledge the pertinent point that City fans do not want special treatment but only to see the same coverage afforded to their rivals?
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Some very good questions and kudos for getting this interview set up. It will be fascinating to see what comes out of it. What would be the ideal outcome from our perspective though? Its unlikely imo that BT will get rid of these three, so will they be asked to become less biased towards us? The best role model for those three is GNeville who manages to be insightful and in the main fair, whoever is playing although i don't think that they have the intelligence or verbal prowess to come anywhere close. Maybe the best outcome is that they are instructed to at least cut out the snide remarks and report the facts and that they are joined by a more recognisable city pundit.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Some very good questions and kudos for getting this interview set up. It will be fascinating to see what comes out of it. What would be the ideal outcome from our perspective though? Its unlikely imo that BT will get rid of these three, so will they be asked to become less biased towards us? The best role model for those three is GNeville who manages to be insightful and in the main fair, whoever is playing although i don't think that they have the intelligence or verbal prowess to come anywhere close. Maybe the best outcome is that they are instructed to at least cut out the snide remarks and report the facts and that they are joined by a more recognisable city pundit.
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That's exactly my take on it too. Best we can hope for is your last sentence.
 
While it annoys me that BT feel that Scholes, Ferdinand and Owen are appropriate pundits to cover our games, when it should be obvious that they aren't, what really beggars belief is that BT can't find any more suitable candidates in general - Scholes, in particular, comes across as thick, miserable, boring and lacking in any personality whatsoever.
 
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