Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

The perfect fumble said:
If Corbyn wins with the NEC onside, the PLP have three options, work with the Party (because its the Party they're fighting), leave, be de-selected. The Party has had enough of them, if anything Corbyn has held the constituency parties back, he genuinely wants to work with the PLP, there's many a constituency party that wants their MP gone.

If the Blairites don't like it and they point to their mandate from electorate, great, stand as an independent, they've been squatting in Labour's house for too long.
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Its the "work with the party" option that I don't really get. I don't see how that that's possible during a general election campaign, when so many MPs clearly do not support the leadership. Even if they adopted the lowest possible profile, the campaign would end up descending into farce.

In practical terms there are only really the two options. Once Corbyn wins the leadership election contest, the rebels need to form their own party. Or Corbyn and his supporters need to oust them.
 
Labour is presently being led by a life long 'protester' - Corbyn has never been a mainstream politician and never will be - he and his supporters are protesters - who focus on key issues and whilst they can usually agree on what's wrong they are often less agreed on what they'd do instead. None of the Corbyn rhetoric butadds up to a credible government opposition - criticizing the govt is all very well but ultimately the electorate want to know what you'd do instead and Corbyns ideas are just simply sketchy and implausible. Labour under Corbyn will become a protest group with circa 50 MPs - it will never have power, it will consistently point out what's wrong in society but rarely have an opportunity to influence things. Corbyn is an answer to the Tories dreams and too many on the left are too busy playing politics inside the party to realize the catastrophic effects their actions will have externally. The Labour Party has been in trouble for years - the trade unions may have funded the party but no one has done more to damage the party than Woodley, Simpson, McCluskey etc. Blustering Union leaders, protecting the self interests of middle class males whilst pretending to represent the poorest in society. How many working class, part time, women do you see at the TUC conference? The left in Britain will reform over the next 10 years but the Labour Party as we know it will become a minor part of that movement. The bigger worry is whether traditional Labour supporters are lost to the far right - as large numbers seem to have - been persuaded (temporarily at least) by new nazi style anti immigration propoganda to vote for a Brexit which is clearly not going to deliver what it promised them (swa thing cuts to immigration) - or certainly not very quickly. The Labour leadership election is largely of limited consequence - the party as we know it is finished but the centre left in Britain can and will reform - and hopefully without the need to rely on a union movement which will be left politically isolated over the coming years.
 
So rather than a party funded by subscriptions from the wages of hundreds of thousands of workers, the centre left should be in hoc & relient on donations from a few of the mega wealthy?
No thanks.
Getting the millions that have been "turned off politics" because "they're all the same" is the challenge for Labour now, & Corbyn and his "common sense" politics is doing that.
This is the reason why the establishment are so frightened (including the right "entryists" of the Labour Party)
 
The perfect fumble said:
No it isn't and repeating that mantra does not make it true.
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Ok keep protesting then. Even Blair worked out that in order to become a labour government you had to win the middle classes vote, at the moment labour hasn't even worked out it needs the working classes. They are all shifting to other parties.

Keep repeating your mantra....
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Ok keep protesting then. Even Blair worked out that in order to become a labour government you had to win the middle classes vote, at the moment labour hasn't even worked out it needs the working classes. They are all shifting to other parties.

Keep repeating your mantra....
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Indeed. This constant carping about 'Blairites' repeatedly ignores the unassailable fact that Blair's approach to the job of winning elections, which he did three times,
focused on the how's and the where's. He won over the floating vote, middle England, whatever you want to call it by adopting the policies, ( or at least paying lip service)
to the centre right. the Corbynistas believe the country will vote for radical socialism, it won't.
 
law74 said:
So rather than a party funded by subscriptions from the wages of hundreds of thousands of workers, the centre left should be in hoc & relient on donations from a few of the mega wealthy?
No thanks.
Getting the millions that have been "turned off politics" because "they're all the same" is the challenge for Labour now, & Corbyn and his "common sense" politics is doing that.
This is the reason why the establishment are so frightened (including the right "entryists" of the Labour Party)
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What is the evidence that Corbyn is succeeding in attracting those millions to his cause?
 
law74 said:
I seen a post online yesterday implying that the Labour right are applying a "scorched earth" policy within the party, if they cant lead it to power then they will try and ensure that no one else can.
When you remember Blair's comments about rather losing an election than winning with a left leaning mandate, makes you think
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It seems to me that both sides are far more interested in running the party their way than they are in having a party that offers a genuine alternative to what we have now which appeals to working people.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Ok keep protesting then. Even Blair worked out that in order to become a labour government you had to win the middle classes vote, at the moment labour hasn't even worked out it needs the working classes. They are all shifting to other parties.

Keep repeating your mantra....
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"labour hasn't even worked out it needs the working classes. They are all shifting to other parties"

You know these things do you? How? Your gut? By osmosis?

Cp4btqZXgAAqFxK.jpg:large


"Even Blair worked out that in order to become a labour government you had to win the middle classes vote,"

What Corbyn stands for won't win over the middle classes? Where is your analysis? Where is your evidence? Beyond your gut, beyond parroting the same old lines over and over again.
 
The perfect fumble said:
"labour hasn't even worked out it needs the working classes. They are all shifting to other parties"

You know these things do you? How? Your gut? By osmosis?

Cp4btqZXgAAqFxK.jpg:large


"Even Blair worked out that in order to become a labour government you had to win the middle classes vote,"

What Corbyn stands for won't win over the middle classes? Where is your analysis? Where is your evidence? Beyond your gut, beyond parroting the same old lines over and over again.
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Calm down. I have only posted twice on the thread and one was a response to your post/ question. So I am hardly going on /parroting on about it. There you go someone makes a valid point and you get angry and shout and put them down. Is that what it's come to? Maybe the truth is in another angry voice . I must start reading it as sources of the truth and fact.

I used to be a member of the Labour Party by the way, used to vote labour , never voted in the last election , voted liberal democrats before then.

You are doing a brilliant job of getting the floating voter back to voting labour. Keep it up.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Calm down. I have only posted twice on the thread and one was a response to your post/ question. So I am hardly going on /parroting on about it. There you go someone makes a valid point and you get angry and shout and put them down. Is that what it's come to? Maybe the truth is in another angry voice . I must start reading it as sources of the truth and fact.

I used to be a member of the Labour Party by the way, used to vote labour , never voted in the last election , voted liberal democrats before then.

You are doing a brilliant job of getting the floating voter back to voting labour. Keep it up.
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You might find this strange, but I'm not really interested in your sensitive nature or your analysis of my apparent struggle with anger management. I had hoped you might add some meat to the bone of your original post, but instead you go all passive aggressive.

Devastating.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You might find this strange, but I'm not really interested in your sensitive nature or your analysis of my apparent struggle with anger management. I had hoped you might add some meat to the bone of your original post, but instead you go all passive aggressive.

Devastating.
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Argh the old oxymoron of passive aggressive.

Top tip if you care passionately about the Labour Party which you clearly do, take people with you. Have principles but also realise it's an election so in some sense Appeal in the widest sense to the electorate, get people on side. Fighting and sniping is not a vote winner.

There you go patronising as well as passive aggressive.... :)
 
Never mind all this bollocks - May's gone on holiday and left Boris in charge !! That could lead to a proper political meltdown !!
 
Labour leadership challenger Owen Smith has suggested the so-called Islamic State could be involved in negotiations with the West in the future.
 
Owen said he learnt in his negotiations in the Irish peace process that talking and dialogue is a solution. Well I guess that is true if each party has predefined aims and goals.

When he is negotiating with Isis and he starts with right what is it you want and mr Isis says well for starters the end of western society .....
 
So where will this meeting with the head honchos (pardon me) of isis take place ?
They won't go to any country where they might get arrested. Our negotiators won't go to their manor unless they've become bored of having a head.
I don't think this prospective labour leader has thought this through.
 
Pino said:
As chief lobbyist for Pfizer, Smith actively pushed for privatisation of NHS services. This is not something Pfizer did very openly, and you have to search the evidence carefully. Footnotes often tell you what is really happening, as in this press release in which Owen Smith says of a Pfizer funded “focus group” study:
The Entirely Fake Owen Smith https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/07/entirely-fake-owen-smith/
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Yet he kicks off everytime someone mentions this. He's using his PR side ala Cameron and B.Liar to appeal to Labour members who can see through it.

"I will renationalise the railways..."
"Protect the NHS"
"Repeal the Trade union laws"

Exact same patter as 1997. Get into power then distance himself from it.

Corbyn will do all of that when elected. Not just say it.
 
mat said:
Yet he kicks off everytime someone mentions this. He's using his PR side ala Cameron and B.Liar to appeal to Labour members who can see through it.

"I will renationalise the railways..."
"Protect the NHS"
"Repeal the Trade union laws"

Exact same patter as 1997. Get into power then distance himself from it.

Corbyn will do all of that when elected. Not just say it.
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We will never know what he would do if elected
 
True, but the terrorist loving muppet went up in my estimation the other day when he failed to recognise Ant and Dec.
And Victoria Derbyshire should have been sacked for asking the question in the first place. BBC - your choice for dumbing down.
 
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