Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

Chris in London said:
Nor has that essential truth changed since the last time the labour party moved substantially to the left, and lost badly, in 1983
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A lot of people in the former Midlands & Northern industrial heartlands, who would barely consider voting anything other than Labour, are actually very conservative socially.

The issues of gay marriage, equality & discrimination, the Iraq war and other foreign affairs questions beloved of the metropolitan left, simply don't register on their radar when it comes to voting. The issues that they regularly face in their day-to-day lives are of paramount importance to them however.

Any Labour Party that forgets this basic truth will lose and lose badly.
 
It would not present an obstacle at all, as the newly appointed leader of the party, she is entitled to have her leadership endorsed by going to the country, extremely unlikely as they are not long elected, it is a possibility though once the labour leadership contest is over and Corbyn retains his leadership..!

Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act the next election is not due until 2020 Mrs May would need the support of two-thirds of MPs to bring forward the date, therefore making it eminently possible that she could go down that road if she wanted.
 
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Blue Til Death said:
It would not present an obstacle at all, as the newly appointed leader of the party, she is entitled to have her leadership endorsed by going to the country, extremely unlikely as they are not long elected, it is a possibility though once the labour leadership contest is over and Corbyn retains his leadership..!

Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act the next election is not due until 2020 Mrs May would need the support of two-thirds of MPs to bring forward the date, therefore making it eminently possible that she could go down that road if she wanted.
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Or, apparently, they could just pass a one line amendment to the act.
 
cibaman said:
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Or, apparently, they could just pass a one line amendment to the act.
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I also think labour would be willing to take the hit when Corbyn is re-elected too, therefore nailed on to get enough MP's to carry the motion.. As I said its unlikely but if I was her I would certainly give it some serious thought, she would get a massive majority of Blair proportions IMO
 
Blue Til Death said:
I also think labour would be willing to take the hit when Corbyn is re-elected too, therefore nailed on to get enough MP's to carry the motion.. As I said its unlikely but if I was her I would certainly give it some serious thought, she would get a massive majority of Blair proportions IMO
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That's the only way it could happen, I'd think.

Will the Labour MPs be so keen to bury Corbyn that they'd vote for Christmas, and risk half of them loving their job, wrecking the party at the same time? I think that self-preservation will win out.
 
Blue Til Death said:
It would not present an obstacle at all, as the newly appointed leader of the party, she is entitled to have her leadership endorsed by going to the country, extremely unlikely as they are not long elected, it is a possibility though once the labour leadership contest is over and Corbyn retains his leadership..!

Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act the next election is not due until 2020 Mrs May would need the support of two-thirds of MPs to bring forward the date, therefore making it eminently possible that she could go down that road if she wanted.
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Actually I think if she disolves parliament without changing the act, under the new law, the queen is oblidged to ask the leader of the oposition if they think they can form a government first, would be a giggle to see but not very helpful
 
Blue Til Death said:
I also think labour would be willing to take the hit when Corbyn is re-elected too, therefore nailed on to get enough MP's to carry the motion.. As I said its unlikely but if I was her I would certainly give it some serious thought, she would get a massive majority of Blair proportions IMO
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That's not likely to change if she waits for a couple of years.
 
Labour's ruling body has won its bid to block 130,000 new party members from voting in the leadership election.
The Court of Appeal has allowed the attempt by party officials to reinstate a block imposed by the National Executive Committee (NEC) on the recruits getting the vote.
The NEC decided that full members would not be able to vote if they had not had at least six months' continuous membership up to 12 July.
The decision could be seen as a boost for Owen Smith, who is taking on Jeremy Corbyn in the contest
There have been suggestions the majority of the recruits barred from voting would have backed Mr Corbyn.

http://news.sky.com/story/court-ruling-bars-thousands-of-members-from-labour-contest-10533363

Now it'll be a proper fight
 
karen7 said:
Labour's ruling body has won its bid to block 130,000 new party members from voting in the leadership election.
The Court of Appeal has allowed the attempt by party officials to reinstate a block imposed by the National Executive Committee (NEC) on the recruits getting the vote.
The NEC decided that full members would not be able to vote if they had not had at least six months' continuous membership up to 12 July.
The decision could be seen as a boost for Owen Smith, who is taking on Jeremy Corbyn in the contest
There have been suggestions the majority of the recruits barred from voting would have backed Mr Corbyn.

http://news.sky.com/story/court-ruling-bars-thousands-of-members-from-labour-contest-10533363

Now it'll be a proper fight
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Just means Corbyn will win with about 65% of the vote rather than 75%.
Portmanteau Communications spent 10 months plotting and planning how to oust Corbyn & this is the best they can do.
Smith is talking to groups of 20 & 30, Corbyn is addressing rallys of thousands.
Be interesting after the vote to see how many come back begging to be forgiven
 
the Blairites should should do the "honourable" thing and join those other lying bastards, the thatcherites, all the rats in one nest
 
what a mess labour are in and as they try to repair the hole just gets bigger and bigger until it swallows them all up,its time they completely disbanded and one new party is reborn, they will never again win an election as they are now but the worse thing is the conservatives have no opposition and that is not a good thing
 
bellbuzzer said:
the Blairites should should do the "honourable" thing and join those other lying bastards, the thatcherites, all the rats in one nest
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Just the attitude of people that have differing opinions, that is part of the reason why Corbyn and his supporters will lead the Labour party into the wilderness and do nothing for the voters it's supposed to help and represent. Still at least the members will be able to fee happy as they indulge themselves in fantasy politics.
 
blueparrot said:
Just the attitude of people that have differing opinions, that is part of the reason why Corbyn and his supporters will lead the Labour party into the wilderness and do nothing for the voters it's supposed to help and represent. Still at least the members will be able to fee happy as they indulge themselves in fantasy politics.
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The left yes that is true but It is also the attitude of labour right wing faction led by progress, they are equally zealots who cannot accept the party in any form but their own. both are at fault and both fail the party. But if a lot of members were to choose they choose the left rather than right and socialism. Corbyn is a dreamer who has ideas of a utopian society, any realist left winger knows that won't happen but we can bloody well try to get as close to it, the progress side will never accept that.

Personally this court bullshit and the the whole coup makes me want to quit my membership, but they would like that I expect. I don't particulary want jezza as leader, but as it stands until someone come and take the batton over from the left, I will support him over the other lot. Again I say both at fault for whats going on but the likes of hunt, powell and paticulary watson will go down as the ones who destroyed the party for me.

As for Smith, his policies are nearly all like corbyns bar trident and defence and sounds like a left leaning man, but I firmly.believe if he won his cabinet would be filled with those that failed under brown and milliband and would force h to pursue a right of the party policy.
 
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Labour are going to the high court to try and get any votes cast in the South of England annulled at the next General Election as it's unfair that those votes may not be cast in their favour. A National Executive Committee member today said 'wwaahhhhhh.....'wwaahhhhhh.... it's not fair'.
 
blueparrot said:
Just the attitude of people that have differing opinions, that is part of the reason why Corbyn and his supporters will lead the Labour party into the wilderness and do nothing for the voters it's supposed to help and represent. Still at least the members will be able to fee happy as they indulge themselves in fantasy politics.
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Well said.
 
David Wearing: A battle of two vision

Putting aside the legal merits of today’s high court judgment, what does this episode tell us about what’s really happening in the Labour party?

Two fundamentally opposing visions are in conflict. The first seeks to market the parliamentary Labour party to majority public opinion, the press and big business as competent managers of the status quo. Here, the role of party members is to pay their fees, act as the doorstep infantry at election time, ratify predetermined policy decisions, and occasionally select a new party leader from a list pre-vetted by their elders and betters.

The second vision is one that sets the party a harder task: to win power in order to substantively change the country (as it did after world war two). This involves turning Labour into a social movement, with a mass membership playing an active day-to-day role in communities across the country, winning the battle for hearts and minds on the ground, countering the inevitable attacks from those with a vested interest in the Thatcher-Blair-Cameron settlement, and shaping party policy from the bottom up.

The Labour establishment, horrified by this second approach, is determined to strangle it in its crib. Hence this week’s retreat into “red scare” conspiracy theories and witch-hunts. Hence raising the registered supporters’ fee from £3 to £25, which will disproportionately affect Corbyn supporters, who are more likely to be working class. Hence the shameless disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of fee-paying members, which a high court judge upheld this afternoon.

While this has been going on, Owen Smith – the parliamentary Labour party’s candidate for leader – has been telling members that he shares their values and priorities and seeks only to pursue them more effectively. Would Smith stay committed to such an agenda if he won the leadership, or shift back rightwards once the vote was out of the way? A strong clue lies in the open contempt for members now on display from the party old guard standing behind him.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rship-election-decision-nec-corbyn-owen-smith
 
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