Squad lists, rules and the end of the transfer window!

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Gareth Barry Conlon

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So the transfer window has a couple of days left and it looks like we are done in terms of incoming and only notable outs remain in order to comply with squad limits. I thought it would be a good time to update on the final numbers for our squad / recap on the rules etc.

The key issue is 17 from where ever i.e. foreigners (for both PL and CL squad rules). Beyond the 17 above we can have 4 association trained (AT) and 4 club trained (CT) for the CL, the PL doesn’t distinguish AT and CT and allows 8 of either. Under 21’s are not limited for PL so all EDS or new signed U21’s can play. However in CL under 21s have to be registered for 2 years and then they are unrestricted – hence Nacho being out of contention until taking one of the 17 spots over Nasri last January and still requiring a spot until January. You don’t need to have a minimum number of HG players or club trained players, both the rules are you can have a max of 17+4+4 for CL or 17+8 for PL. No quotas as some assume only limits.

Hope that’s all clear. Here is the list for CL.

4 Club Trained - 1?
Jason Denayer?, (still a question over his eligibility?).

4 Association Trained - 5?
Joe Hart?, Gaël Clichy, John Stones, Raheem Sterling, Fabian Delph,

17 Unrestricted – 23?
1 Caballero 2 Bravo
3 Kompany, 4 Sagna, 5 Kolarov, 6 Zabaleta 7 Otamendi
8 Gundogan 9 Fernando, 10 Fernandinho, 11 Yaya Toure, 12 Silva, 13 Navas, 14 Nasri, 15 De Bruyne,. 16 Nolito
17 Bony, 18 Aguero. 19 Sane, 20 Kelechi Iheanacho,
(21 Mangala, 22, Zinchenko, 23 Bruno Zuculini).

For the Prem league the following changes:

Sane. Nacho, Zinchenko all drop in to the unlimited under 21s so the 23 becomes 20.

Bottom line, If Joe goes we have no issue with English players. 6 players need to drop out for the CL but only 3 for the Prem league. So who are the 3 and 6 that will either leave or miss out on PL/CL football?
 
I expect Bony and Mangala to leave, with Denayer (loan) and Nasri still possibilities.
 
Gaudion M said:
So the transfer window has a couple of days left and it looks like we are done in terms of incoming and only notable outs remain in order to comply with squad limits. I thought it would be a good time to update on the final numbers for our squad / recap on the rules etc.

The key issue is 17 from where ever i.e. foreigners (for both PL and CL squad rules). Beyond the 17 above we can have 4 association trained (AT) and 4 club trained (CT) for the CL, the PL doesn’t distinguish AT and CT and allows 8 of either. Under 21’s are not limited for PL so all EDS or new signed U21’s can play. However in CL under 21s have to be registered for 2 years and then they are unrestricted – hence Nacho being out of contention until taking one of the 17 spots over Nasri last January and still requiring a spot until January. You don’t need to have a minimum number of HG players or club trained players, both the rules are you can have a max of 17+4+4 for CL or 17+8 for PL. No quotas as some assume only limits.

Hope that’s all clear. Here is the list for CL.

4 Club Trained - 1?
Jason Denayer?, (still a question over his eligibility?).

4 Association Trained - 5?
Joe Hart?, Gaël Clichy, John Stones, Raheem Sterling, Fabian Delph,

17 Unrestricted – 23?
1 Caballero 2 Bravo
3 Kompany, 4 Sagna, 5 Kolarov, 6 Zabaleta 7 Otamendi
8 Gundogan 9 Fernando, 10 Fernandinho, 11 Yaya Toure, 12 Silva, 13 Navas, 14 Nasri, 15 De Bruyne,. 16 Nolito
17 Bony, 18 Aguero. 19 Sane, 20 Kelechi Iheanacho,
(21 Mangala, 22, Zinchenko, 23 Bruno Zuculini).

For the Prem league the following changes:

Sane. Nacho, Zinchenko all drop in to the unlimited under 21s so the 23 becomes 20.

Bottom line, If Joe goes we have no issue with English players. 6 players need to drop out for the CL but only 3 for the Prem league. So who are the 3 and 6 that will either leave or miss out on PL/CL football?
Click to expand...
#22 + #23 have already gone
 
Gaudion M said:
I'd missed them (was away for the weekend).

Updated bottom line, 4 players need to drop out for the CL and 2 for the Prem league.
Click to expand...
Bony & Mangala clearly two of those 4 for the CL & PL. So with those two we're fine for the PL.

Toure may well be another CL drop out. The last might depend on any fitness concerns but everyone is in full training. If Nasri goes that solves the problem but if not I'd keep him in the CL squad over Fernando/Delph. We only really need one of those.
 
I presume Gunn is in the u21s? We need a 3rd GK.

Hope Navas goes. At the start of the summer I wanted him to stay but after seeing him in a few games I'm thinking there's no hope for him. If we need pace and crosses then keep Angelino on the bench.

Hope Nasri stays. IMO he could be one of our most important players if he gets a run in the side (and lets not let the fact that there are more popular players in his position get in the way of the best 11).

Hope Yaya goes (again I was hoping he'd stay but he hasn't looked like he has the pace when he has featured - maybe he is still rusty though).
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Bony & Mangala clearly two of those 4 for the CL & PL. So with those two we're fine for the PL.

Toure may well be another CL drop out. The last might depend on any fitness concerns but everyone is in full training. If Nasri goes that solves the problem but if not I'd keep him in the CL squad over Fernando/Delph. We only really need one of those.
Click to expand...

Agree on the PL squad, that looks done. Delph's place is not under threat because he fits in as 1 of 4 AT players. Fernando, Mangala, Bony, Nasri, Toure. 4 from those 5?
 
Sane and Nacho only drop into the unlimited U21's once they have been at the club for 2 years, Nacho meets this requirement in January, then there will be a spot for Gabriel Jesus. (EDIT: For the CL).

I'd expect it to be Mangala, Yaya, Nasri and Bony that don't make the final squad for the CL. Or Caballero instead of Yaya and he uses Gunn as backup in the CL.
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
That's for the CL. It doesn't apply to the PL squad where they just have to be U21, regardless of nationality or how long they've been at the club.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just assumed he was talking about the CL squad. Although I think the CL squad will dictate our premier league squad to some extent, i.e. Mangala can go and get Champions League football at Porto rather than play 5th choice, same with Nasri at Besiktas or Sevilla.
 
TonyM said:
I presume Gunn is in the u21s? We need a 3rd GK.

Hope Navas goes. At the start of the summer I wanted him to stay but after seeing him in a few games I'm thinking there's no hope for him. If we need pace and crosses then keep Angelino on the bench.

Hope Nasri stays. IMO he could be one of our most important players if he gets a run in the side (and lets not let the fact that there are more popular players in his position get in the way of the best 11).

Hope Yaya goes (again I was hoping he'd stay but he hasn't looked like he has the pace when he has featured - maybe he is still rusty though).
Click to expand...

Gunn is our 3rd keeper now.
 
With Zinchenko and Zucculini gone, Mangala almost gone and clearly not in the plans, it boils down to this:

Only 2 from the following list can make the CL squad:
Fernando
Yaya
Navas
Nasri
Bony

It's looking increasingly likely to me that Nasri will be one of them. After that for me it's a toss up between Fernando and Yaya for the other spot. I think Guardiola will go for Fernando.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Sane and Nacho only drop into the unlimited U21's once they have been at the club for 2 years, Nacho meets this requirement in January, then there will be a spot for Gabriel Jesus. (EDIT: For the CL).

I'd expect it to be Mangala, Yaya, Nasri and Bony that don't make the final squad for the CL. Or Caballero instead of Yaya and he uses Gunn as backup in the CL.
Click to expand...

Prestwich_Blue said:
That's for the CL. It doesn't apply to the PL squad where they just have to be U21, regardless of nationality or how long they've been at the club.
Click to expand...

Jesus will go straight into the Prem squad as an U21 player. For CL he would require one of the 17 spots - however - at that point Nacho* should get a spot as a U21 having been with us 2 years.
* assuming Nacho was registered ahead of the January deadline 2 years ago and the dates on the relevant paperwork and squad rules match up!

We are building up a bit of a problem where many of these Under 21's will eventualy require a spot within the 17 but i guess its a nice problem to have!
 
Gaudion M said:
Jesus will go straight into the Prem squad as an U21 player. For CL he would require one of the 17 spots - however - at that point Nacho* should get a spot as a U21 having been with us 2 years.
* assuming Nacho was registered ahead of the January deadline 2 years ago and the dates on the relevant paperwork and squad rules match up!

We are building up a bit of a problem where many of these Under 21's will eventualy require a spot within the 17 but i guess its a nice problem to have!
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem with signing U21's is we aren't quite signing them young enough which obviously has negatives to it. Correct me if i'm wrong but if we sign them at 18 they then would have the chance to become club trained (3 years under the age of 21), although the FA want to make it 4 years. So Sane and Gabriel Jesus will be unlimited for now as you say but become part of the 17 once they're are 22, I think Iheanacho wouldn't count as club trained either. Although the thought of Brahim becoming a club trained player is brilliant.
 
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Shaelumstash said:
With Zinchenko and Zucculini gone, Mangala almost gone and clearly not in the plans, it boils down to this:

Only 2 from the following list can make the CL squad:
Fernando
Yaya
Navas
Nasri
Bony

It's looking increasingly likely to me that Nasri will be one of them. After that for me it's a toss up between Fernando and Yaya for the other spot. I think Guardiola will go for Fernando.
Click to expand...

Unless he drops Caballero and makes Gunn 2nd choice for the CL. I too think he'll drop Yaya though.
 
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MCFC1993 said:
Yeah the problem with signing U21's is we aren't quite signing them young enough which obviously has negatives to it. Correct me if i'm wrong but if we sign them at 18 they then would have the chance to become club trained (3 years under the age of 21), although the FA want to make it 4 years. So Sane and Gabriel Jesus will be unlimited for now as you say but become part of the 17 once they're are 22, I think Iheanacho wouldn't count as club trained either.
Click to expand...

It all gets a bit tricky as different comps have differing rules and they change regularly + you never know exactly when someone signed. Denayer is in that position where he joined the club the same summer he turned 18. Did we register him before or after his birtherday? As I understand it, if it was after he misses out on both CT and AT status making him less valuable to all English clubs. I think the same happened to Pogba where he left before he had done enough time to get CT and AT status so he will be taking a 17 spot at the rags.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Unless he drops Caballero and makes Gunn 2nd choice for the CL. I too think he'll drop Yaya though.
Click to expand...

I think it's too big a risk to have Gunn as second choice, he's not played a senior game yet.

I think Nasri looks a much better fit at number 8 than Yaya and he can also play as one of the 3 forwards which Yaya certainly couldn't play as one of the wingers. The only place Yaya looks more suitable is as the pivot, but I don't think he's got the appetite to play there anymore, so Nasri looks the obvious choice if it's one or the other.

I'm surprised Navas hasn't been strongly linked with a move yet. He can only play right wing and he's at very best 3rd choice there now. Looks very much a square peg in this squad and he'd be a complete waste of a squad place in my view.
 
Gaudion M said:
It all gets a bit tricky as different comps have differing rules and they change regularly + you never know exactly when someone signed. Denayer is in that position where he joined the club the same summer he turned 18. Did we register him before or after his birtherday? As I understand it, if it was after he misses out on both CT and AT status making him less valuable to all English clubs. I think the same happened to Pogba where he left before he had done enough time to get CT and AT status so he will be taking a 17 spot at the rags.
Click to expand...
I think this summer we'll have a couple of unhappy players who will miss out (Yaya to name one) but next summer we'll be fine though as we are beginning to ship out the old guard/underperforming players, we are also looking to the future now and signing younger players. I think we have become better at this in recent years, as i've just edited into my post, the thought of Brahim Diaz being a club trained player is brilliant. Obviously there is much more risk to signing 16/17 year olds.
 
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