Spurs vs City post match

[Happy Feet]

Just checked the table and we are top, hope this crisis ends soon.

 

[kas_tippler]

Honeymoon is over, reality has well and truly bitten.

 

[Chippy_boy]

That series had to end at some point. There was never any way that we were going to go unbeaten, we've got serious weaknesses at the back, everybody knows that, even with Stones and Bravo now in.

I think we are pretty decent as far as centre halves go - Otamendi is decent, as is Stones, and hopefully Kompany will have a run at some point. But when you have Kolarov preening and standing around like a bookend and Zabba frankly all over the place, we were effectively playing with a back 2.

Unfortunately, barring transfers, I don't know how Pep is going to fix this. One immediate change he can make, is to play Clichy and Sagna, ALWAYS.

 

[BillyShears]

I hope so Billy cos it annoyed the fuck out of me.
There was a perfect opportunity at one point to take the ball and Wanyama when he was on the touchline but the crunching challenge never came. I expected a bit more of the Fern's. Silva did hid damnedest ( i love the little scrapper in him) and PabZab spent the last 20 showing true bottle but far too many of the others simply dangled their feet around or didn't bother at all.
Surprising really as i thought we showed some real fight away at Stoke earlier this season.

I thought the entire midfield and attack were utterly culpable in allowing Spurs to bully them. Silva, Dinho, and Fernando were appalling in the first 45 minutes. If you look at the collective experience and collective quality of those players, then for a midfield trio of Wanyama, Eriksen (!), and Alli to bully them with a little help from Lamela/Sissoko is piss poor.

You look to your best players to shine when the collective is underperforming. Our "best" players yesterday were our amongst our worst performers.

 

[mancity1]

I thought the entire midfield and attack were utterly culpable in allowing Spurs to bully them. Silva, Gundo, Dinho, and Fernando were appalling in the first 45 minutes. If you look at the collective experience and collective quality of those players, then for a midfield trio of Wanyama, Eriksen (!), and Alli to bully them with a little help from Lamela/Sissoko is piss poor.

You look to your best players to shine when the collective is underperforming. Our "best" players yesterday were our amongst our worst performers.

Our poor results against the better sides last year cost us big time.

As disappointing as yesterday was it would almost impossible for us to perform as poorly against these sides for two seasons on the spin.

No side including Spurs has indicated to anybody that they will take the league by the scruff of the neck this season.

 

[waspish]

Before yesterdays game I imagined us 2 points behind spurs then after the game look at the table we went above them[emoji847] top of the league brilliant weekend [emoji38]

 

[Dave S]

We lost a game FFS, its football, these things happen.

 

[adr2.8i]

I thought the entire midfield and attack were utterly culpable in allowing Spurs to bully them. Silva, Gundo, Dinho, and Fernando were appalling in the first 45 minutes. If you look at the collective experience and collective quality of those players, then for a midfield trio of Wanyama, Eriksen (!), and Alli to bully them with a little help from Lamela/Sissoko is piss poor.

You look to your best players to shine when the collective is underperforming. Our "best" players yesterday were our amongst our worst performers.

i do agree that our midfield was part of the reason why we lost, but Gundogan didnt even play the first half! i think we improved a bit when he came on just before the hour mark.

Not a great week for Kolorov and whatever level you play at, you cant afford to gift goals to teams.

I know its painful to be outplayed by the Spuds, but i think we are still ahead of where Pep and myself thought we would be. Cant wait for the next few transfer windows when hopefully Pep gets the squad he wants.

 

[fergal_oc]

After a sleep it's a little easier to analyse.

Like many have said the team sheet looked wrong from the start. Zab and kolarov were pretty dire in mid week and shouldn't have been anywhere near the team today.

Unfortunately they were and we did resort to type. Yesterday we needed to flood the midfield with quick, short passes making their press run around for minutes on end for little reward. Kolarov and Zabs needed to come in field and let navas and sterling stay out wide.

I really hope it's not the case but I can't help but feel that pep threw this game or at least positioned it to more than likely end in a loss. That might sound mad but in some lines of work you want to fail fast, knowing that it's coming anyway, so that you can learn from failing before too many habits bed in.

We were always going to end the weekend on top of the table and that's the most important part. If pep can spend the week with the boys, using the hurt from the weekend to inspire and motivate them then there's no reason we can't go another run of unbeaten games - as long as red cards and injuries give us the squad we need.

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

Hello.

Lurked on the forums for a while before finally signing up. Couldn't class myself as a City fan although I've always had a soft spot for the club and with Pep on board have a real interest in seeing how things go. Think my affinity for the club stems from having an inherent dislike for Man Utd, even at a very young age before I properly got into football. Can't really explain why but knew my instincts were right as I followed football more and became a season ticket holder at my local club.

As a supporter of a small, provincial team I for some reason always hoped City fans would be able to get one over a group of arrogant twats who had lorded it over them year upon year. And now it's happening.

Anyway, reading through the Spurs match day and post match threads I found some of the knicker wetting quite incredible. I don't imagine for a second that it was representative of the City support generally but it was a bit of an eye opener how folk can be on the verge of a meltdown after 10 wins, a draw and a loss.

Speaking slightly impartially, I felt at the start of the season City would probably win the league but a lot would depend on the initial couple of months and how long it took Guardiola and the players to get on the same wavelength. I'm pretty certain now you'll win the league, despite yesterday's game.

I think it's easy to forget how emotionally draining the match against Celtic was. Yes, the players are professional and have to deal with these situations but they are still human and we are talking about small percentages making all the difference at the highest level. Adding in the extra day recovery for Spurs and the fact they were playing at home had a big impact in Spurs starting the game with more intensity than City, there's no denying that. This put the team on the back foot and then Kolarov's error just helped give Spurs even more momentum and they played very well that first half.

Yes, there are some issues for the team, particularly full back areas and requirement for another CB, however it's hard to imagine Pep won't address those in the transfer market sooner rather than later. And for some to say that teams simply need to press high against City to get success is overly simplistic. Come on, this is Guardiola, one of the main proponents of playing a high pressing style, he more than anyone will know what his team needs to do against it. As the players train more with him and become more comfortable in the systems he plays, teams will have less and less success trying to pressure City that way, especially once he has all the players in place that he wants.

Despite having very good players, City did have an ageing squad that was in quite a bit of need of an overhaul. It's begun now but can't happen in just one summer. In the meantime, your first eleven is definitely good enough to win the Prem and you should just enjoy what's coming, it'll be brilliant.

And Danny Rose is an utter cockend.

 

[StrangewaysHereWeCome]

Haven't liked them since '81, and today has just reinforced that feeling.

Funnily enough I think my dislike goes back to that year too

 

[BillyShears]

i do agree that our midfield was part of the reason why we lost, but Gundogan didnt even play the first half! i think we improved a bit when he came on just before the hour mark.

I should've written anonymous instead of appalling would've made more sense then! :)

 

[Father Paul]

You think you're the new Guardiola? But you're trying to dissect the team too much. We simply got bullied off the ball today - nothing more - nothing less. Our defense wasn't shit (as you kept telling us it was), none of the goals could be put down to our incompetent players. It was nothing to do with that at all. Watch the game, digest and read it. We lost today because we were slow to pick up the second ball, and got bullied off the ball too easily. That is all it amounts to. Guardiola saw what was happening, and changed it (albeit too little too late), and the game changed. It 's not the end of the world though, we are going to lose the odd game - get used to it. I'd hate to watch a match with you - most of my City mates would run you out of town, for being a bandwagon jumper, or having no idea where we've come from. Start supporting your team for Gods sake!

I don't agree that it was entirely a matter of "simply getting bullied off the ball" I did digest and read the game and have reached the conclusion that over the course of the 90 minutes we were very much second best. Of course we have to accept that we will lose games but I felt that it was just a little bit to easy for Spurs yesterday to take the points as we lacked a cohesive response to their high press and even allowing for the misuse of Fernando I think we are starting to struggle with this aspect of the game. Too many players having to run backward to receive balls and a rather disjointed approach to transformation from defence to attack. This was not our strongest 11 Nolito on the left and Kev were badly missed but the reversion to some of the poor decision making of last season by Kolorov and Otto is very worrying. When the pressure largely missing over the first month has been applied a number of players are starting to make poor decisions and the passing which was crisp and accurate has deteriorated in quality.
We have now lost the last 3 games against Spurs and despite some bad luck and poor decisions in all honesty we have played second fiddle to them. They demonstrated that they are a good team yesterday and we will need to improve on our play if we are to finish above them. However, we are still capable of getting the better of them and I fully subscribe to those who believe that it will take time for Pep to perfect his system and assemble more players who are suited to his style. He is as is often alluded to the King of press resistance and finding solutions to problems which crop up on an ongoing basis. We now have a chance to clear our heads and the fixture list in the league over the next few weeks is tricky but not too difficult. If we keep our composure and collect some points we will stay in contention until the critical Christmas period when we must face Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs again in relatively quick succession. How we deal with these dangerous opponents is likely to go a long way towards determining our finishing position. We must hope that Pep can fashion
an adequate response to the questions posed yesterday which we had difficulty answering.

 

[Scooby Blue]

Thought the game highlighted a lack of balance in the squad:

Sterling / Navas / Sane fighting it out for 1 position on right-wing
The moment we lose Nolito - our lack of options for left wing ends up with Sterling / Navas looking less effective there
Gabriel Jesus will partially address this when he arrives, but given difference in team ethic + tactics since MP left, I would have preferred Pep to ask Nasri to stay + assess what he can do.
If other players have improved under Pep - why not Nasri who can play both left + more centrally with level of ball retention that Pep Loves.

Surprised Sagna + Clichy didn't start.
Is Pep really saying that Zabaleta + AK are our first choice full-backs in a difficult away game?
I don't particularly like Walker at RB for Spurs but I thought his aggression from the first whistle set a tempo / benchmark for Spurs that we struggled to match.

 

[Father Paul]

Important away goal in LC semi last year.

When was the last time he scored in the league? it seems like a very long time ago

 

[Terra Passenger]

We lost a game FFS, its football, these things happen.

+1

No side wins every single game they play.

But against Spurs, we've faced 3 consecutive sides that will press us - and we've performed below expectation in every single one of those fixtures (Swansea, Celtic, and Spurs).

We're not at full strength, not by a long shot.

It's not at all surprising for me that we lost against an excellent Spurs side.

KDB, Kompany - out

Sane, Gundogan - coming off injuries, not fit to play for a full 90.

Nolito suspended.

Playing, arguably, the 2nd best side in the EPL on their home pitch.

We were screwed before the opening kickoff - the only thing that really surprised me was the inclusion of Fernando (great stamina, seems loyal to our side, but absolutely lacks any sort of passing ability whatsoever, and who - for that reason - will be sold as soon as possible) over Garcia. For me, Garcia deserved a chance to start as our pivot. That said, Pep is not a complete fucking tactical idiot as was Pellers - nor is he much above average as was Mancini - Pep is the best fucking tactical/strategic genius in all of world football.

I'd have absolutely started Garcia as the 6 over Fernando, and possibly Sagna instead of Zaba on the right.

But with KDB out, and, apparently, Gundogan not fit to go for a full 90, we were fucked from the get-go; team depth needs to improve to fix this. Again, Pep hasn't been here nearly long enoug to address this.
====================
I'm not disappointed in the loss overly much - it may end up costing us the title since we dropped 3 points against one of our most serious rivals - but I don't think we could have done much better given our current squad.

Sane and Gundogan both available for a full 90 will immediately improve our side; Noito not on suspension will also help; Jesus coming in as well - we're going to be much more formidable very soon.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

After a sleep it's a little easier to analyse.

Like many have said the team sheet looked wrong from the start. Zab and kolarov were pretty dire in mid week and shouldn't have been anywhere near the team today.

Unfortunately they were and we did resort to type. Yesterday we needed to flood the midfield with quick, short passes making their press run around for minutes on end for little reward. Kolarov and Zabs needed to come in field and let navas and sterling stay out wide.

I really hope it's not the case but I can't help but feel that pep threw this game or at least positioned it to more than likely end in a loss. That might sound mad but in some lines of work you want to fail fast, knowing that it's coming anyway, so that you can learn from failing before too many habits bed in.

We were always going to end the weekend on top of the table and that's the most important part. If pep can spend the week with the boys, using the hurt from the weekend to inspire and motivate them then there's no reason we can't go another run of unbeaten games - as long as red cards and injuries give us the squad we need.

Have to say, that yesterday was the least disappointed I have been after a defeat. Not because we played well and were unlucky but more it showed exactly which players are the square pegs in this side. We are definitely a midfielder short, unless we can clone Fernandinho, Zabaleta is done, Kolarov's renaissance could be short lived if he can't show a little more composure and Otamendi needs to stay on his feet.

I doubt Pep would throw any match more that he was a little handcuffed in team selection in midfield. Gundogan isn't fully fit, KdB is injured and Nolito was suspended. I can't fathom why he started Zabaleta though.

Spurs were very good, everyone played very well and they all looked very comfortable in their system. They also despite being far better than us for the entire first half got a little lucky with Kolarov's own goal and the mess he made with ball at his feet for their second.

I also thought Fernandinho was fouled in the build up to their first and that Kun should've had a penalty. Marriner let the game flow but could easily have dismissed Otamendi and Rose. I thought he allowed Spurs bully us, time and again Spurs players got away with niggly fouls in that the likes of Silva, Kun and Navas were nudged and kicked but kept the ball but it did enought to interrupt our flow. But it worked for Spurs so fair play to them.

I expect we'll see a lot of stories that Spurs and Celtic have shown how to beat City and that we should stop playing it from the back. I am sure we're on the right path though, at one point first half Fernandinho took the ball on the half turn from Bravo and 6 Spurs players were out of the game. That's the way we're going to play so we'd better buckle up and enjoy.

 

[Father Paul]

The fundamental problem is that, apart from Stones, the defenders aren't really good enough to play consistently well in Pep's system. Neither is Fernando as the pivot. Pep has extracted some very good performances from them and will continue to do so. But no more than 7 times out of 10.

Perhaps the times they don't perform up to standard will be against the better sides?

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

I think we are pretty decent as far as centre halves go - Otamendi is decent, as is Stones, and hopefully Kompany will have a run at some point. But when you have Kolarov preening and standing around like a bookend and Zabba frankly all over the place, we were effectively playing with a back 2.

Unfortunately, barring transfers, I don't know how Pep is going to fix this. One immediate change he can make, is to play Clichy and Sagna, ALWAYS.

Not an option, I'm afraid. Not when you're playing a game every three to four days, as we have been doing, and will be doing pretty much right through the season. They would be completely burned out half way through. Best case scenario (and it's not ideal) is to play the lads, Maffeo and Angelino for all league cup matches, and maybe some of the easier (?) league matches at home, alternating them with Zab and Kolarov for those last ones. Otherwise, all of the league matches, barring the easiest ones, plus all Champions League matches without exception: Sagna and Clichy. But even Sagna and Clichy aren't ideal, not in the long term, or even in the medium term. They're not young men, as atheletes go. Pep must be looking regularly at the lads and weighing up whether they'll make the grade as long-term options – and otherwise keeping a close eye on what's available in Europe/Latin America. In central defence Stones will be with us for years, Otamendi's still got a role to play (although he was back to his Keystone Cops stuff of last season yesterday, it seemed to me). I'm no longer even thinking of Vinny any longer, tragic as it is to admit. A fully fit Vinny, paired with Stones, and Bravo behind them, playing match after match? I honestly think we'd walk the league, whoever the fullbacks were. Sadly, it isn't going to happen.
That leaves Tosin, but he's not ready to step in on a regular basis, not for a season, maybe even two. It all looks a bit thin, to me, frankly.

 

[cibaman]

I don't agree that it was entirely a matter of "simply getting bullied off the ball" I did digest and read the game and have reached the conclusion that over the course of the 90 minutes we were very much second best. Of course we have to accept that we will lose games but I felt that it was just a little bit to easy for Spurs yesterday to take the points as we lacked a cohesive response to their high press and even allowing for the misuse of Fernando I think we are starting to struggle with this aspect of the game. Too many players having to run backward to receive balls and a rather disjointed approach to transformation from defence to attack. This was not our strongest 11 Nolito on the left and Kev were badly missed but the reversion to some of the poor decision making of last season by Kolorov and Otto is very worrying. When the pressure largely missing over the first month has been applied a number of players are starting to make poor decisions and the passing which was crisp and accurate has deteriorated in quality.
We have now lost the last 3 games against Spurs and despite some bad luck and poor decisions in all honesty we have played second fiddle to them. They demonstrated that they are a good team yesterday and we will need to improve on our play if we are to finish above them. However, we are still capable of getting the better of them and I fully subscribe to those who believe that it will take time for Pep to perfect his system and assemble more players who are suited to his style. He is as is often alluded to the King of press resistance and finding solutions to problems which crop up on an ongoing basis. We now have a chance to clear our heads and the fixture list in the league over the next few weeks is tricky but not too difficult. If we keep our composure and collect some points we will stay in contention until the critical Christmas period when we must face Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs again in relatively quick succession. How we deal with these dangerous opponents is likely to go a long way towards determining our finishing position. We must hope that Pep can fashion
an adequate response to the questions posed yesterday which we had difficulty answering.

The problems started at the back. The way we play, if the ball isn't coming out smoothly from defence(and the pivot) then the likes of Silva will always struggle to get into the game. I think De Bruyne would also have struggled to get into the game yesterday, although he might have provided a game changing flash of brilliance.