'As A City Fan', Would You Like To See Safe Standing Introduced At The Etihad?

blueparrot said:
At grounds with safe standing, ie Germany or Celtic are away fans given any safe standing area? Or are away fans put in seated areas only ? I don't remember seeing pictures with split safe standing areas but there may well be.
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Yes in Germany - and they are all at opposite ends of the ground so rival fans are not stood next to each other.
That way, the hooligans that want to congregate next to the away end standing area (in home end seated areas) are easily seen on CCTV and monitored by the police.
 
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Squelch said:
100% No.
I was working at a major employer in Liverpool at the time of Hillsborough. Thankfully my close mates at the game were safe, but we all knew someone who didn't make it back.
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Fans standing had nothing to do with the Hillsbourgh tragedy, shit policing and cages were the cause
 
robbie brewer said:
It's a yes from me but sadly i don't think it will happen. The Hillsborough Support Group have stated their opposition to safe standing
and as it would require an act of Parliament to allow it I don't think any Government would risk upsetting them by allowing safe standing. It's a shame really as the Hillsborough enquiry showed where the blame lies and standing wasn't the cause or to blame.
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Incorrect. There was no act of Parliament that said we had to sit down. So one isn't required to allow standing to happen.
It was a Government regulation not legislation that was introduced.
At the time of the Taylor Report it was originally stated all 4 top divisions would be all seated, but after a review (after criticism of the regulation), the then sports minister David Mellor stood up in parliament and simply stated it was be changed to the top two divisions only (and phased in when clubs got promoted etc) - but that is all it would take, a Government review and an announcement in parliament repelling the legislation.

That is why it is not against the law to stand up because there is no law. It is a stadium regulation to remain in your seat, but it is not the law of the land and that is why the rule is unenforceable through the courts (yes of course clubs can ban you) but you can't be taken to court for standing because you haven't broken a law.
A steward can throw you out because they are there to enforce stadium regulations, but a policeman can't throw you out just for standing, because you haven't broken any law.
 
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Hillsborough......many contributory factors,INCLUDING late arriving,ticketless,pissed up dippers. They then moved on to Hysell,you know,the disaster that's been erased from their 'istree !! There,I've gone and said it.

The experiences of pub landlords in Sheffield & The Peak District are illuminating.
 
Has to be the way to go.

Can't understand fans saying no, if safestanding comes in to place it will only be for one stand and lower section so there will be far more areas to choose from if you still want to sit.

It will improve the atmosphere , this will be an area where standing is actually allowed not an area were seats get in the way and t here is the potential of security moaning. Fans that are likely to sing at a game will congregate in the safestand area far more than they would in an area where fans generally stand in seated areas.

Four years ago the etihad hit a low where seated fans spread all around meant the atmosphere was getting worse. Lower SS then started with flags and displays, the 115 section was offered as a relocation for singers, this has picked up the atmosphere considerably. Maybe if you are in level three you can't hear the singing, from lower SS you can.

Safestanding and in particular over in the lower area of the rebuilt NS will be phase two of getting like minded singers together, standing does encourage singing.

It will happen within the next two or three years.
 
CrownPointBlue said:
Hillsborough......many contributory factors,INCLUDING late arriving,ticketless,pissed up dippers. They then moved on to Hysell,you know,the disaster that's been erased from their 'istree !! There,I've gone and said it.

The experiences of pub landlords in Sheffield & The Peak District are illuminating.
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Have you had your head buried in a copy of The Sun for the past 27 years or are you willfully ignoring the findings of the Hillsborough Inquiry?

What an absolute load of shit. Latecomers? What would constitute "late" to you? The situation outside the ground started to unravel at around 2.15pm and was completely out of control by 2.35pm.

Pissed up fans? Please direct me to some footage of these pissed up fans. There's hour upon hour of footage out there and yet nothing to suggest that drunken behaviour had anything to do with it. The best the police could offer up on that front was anecdotal evidence from one woman claiming a drunk fan had taken a piss in her garden.

A jury agreed unanimously that the fans weren't to blame for what happened at Hillsborough. The inquiry found a number of factors contributed to the deaths of 96 people on that day and not one of them matches up with what you've said.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Incorrect. There was no act of Parliament that said we had to sit down. So one isn't required to allow standing to happen.
It was a Government regulation not legislation that was introduced.
At the time of the Taylor Report it was originally stated all 4 top divisions would be all seated, but after a review (after criticism of the regulation), the then sports minister David Mellor stood up in parliament and simply stated it was be changed to the top two divisions only (and phased in when clubs got promoted etc) - but that is all it would take, a Government review and an announcement in parliament repelling the legislation.

That is why it is not against the law to stand up because there is no law. It is a stadium regulation to remain in your seat, but it is not the law of the land and that is why the rule is unenforceable through the courts (yes of course clubs can ban you) but you can't be taken to court for standing because you haven't broken a law.
A steward can throw you out because they are there to enforce stadium regulations, but a policeman can't throw you out just for standing, because you haven't broken any law.
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There is black and white legislation that applies to our ground, which carries the full weight or the original and renamed act. There would need to be similar legislation to remove it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1541/contents/made


The Football Spectators (Seating) (No.2) Order 2003

SCHEDULE 1

PREMISES IN RESPECT OF WHICH A CONDITION IMPOSING REQUIREMENTS AS RESPECTS THE SEATING OF SPECTATORS AT DESIGNATED FOOTBALL MATCHES SHALL BE IMPOSED

(1) Address of the premises (2) Football club of which the premises are the home ground
National Hockey Stadium and Conference Centre

Silbury Boulevard

Central Milton Keynes

MK9 1HA

Wimbledon Football Club

City of Manchester Stadium

Eastlands

Manchester

Manchester City Football Club
SCHEDULE 2

REQUIREMENTS TO BE IMPOSED

1. Only seated accommodation shall be provided for spectators at a designated football match.

2. Spectators shall only be admitted to watch a designated football match from seated accommodation.


 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Yes in Germany - and they are all at opposite ends of the ground so rival fans are not stood next to each other.
That way, the hooligans that want to congregate next to the away end standing area (in home end seated areas) are easily seen on CCTV and monitored by the police.
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Thanks, that seems sensible, Sounds like the North stand would be the best option then and the away fans can stay in the South stand. It would be a good time for us if we are extending to move people when the new stand opens, otherwise we'll be moving fans around twice. Even if safe standing isnt allowed by then we could move the singing section ready for when it is.
 
Corky said:
There is black and white legislation that applies to our ground, which carries the full weight or the original and renamed act. There would need to be similar legislation to remove it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1541/contents/made


The Football Spectators (Seating) (No.2) Order 2003

SCHEDULE 1

PREMISES IN RESPECT OF WHICH A CONDITION IMPOSING REQUIREMENTS AS RESPECTS THE SEATING OF SPECTATORS AT DESIGNATED FOOTBALL MATCHES SHALL BE IMPOSED

(1) Address of the premises (2) Football club of which the premises are the home ground
National Hockey Stadium and Conference Centre

Silbury Boulevard

Central Milton Keynes

MK9 1HA

Wimbledon Football Club

City of Manchester Stadium

Eastlands

Manchester

Manchester City Football Club
SCHEDULE 2

REQUIREMENTS TO BE IMPOSED

1. Only seated accommodation shall be provided for spectators at a designated football match.

2. Spectators shall only be admitted to watch a designated football match from seated accommodation.

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Seated accommodation shall be provided. Doesn't say fans have to sit.
The words you have produced are, in effect, meaningless.
 
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Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Seated accommodation shall be provided. Doesn't say fans have to sit.
The words you have produced are, in effect, meaningless.
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2. Spectators shall only be admitted to watch a designated football match from seated accommodation.

Strongly implied that they should sit.

If you listen to FSF they say Old Trafford has pitch side seats for away fans, which shows they are not exactly on the ball.

Plus you seem to think secondary legislation is not legislation, which flaws your stand point.

I am not against standing and most football clubs allow it, but trying to get around it using flawed legal arguments is not the way.
 
Everyone stands in a couple of different blocks so there should be no major issue if it's managed correctly. I'm in 211 at the moment but would consider a move to a safe standing area.
 
Corky said:
2. Spectators shall only be admitted to watch a designated football match from seated accommodation.

Strongly implied that they should sit.

If you listen to FSF they say Old Trafford has pitch side seats for away fans, which shows they are not exactly on the ball.

Plus you seem to think secondary legislation is not legislation, which flaws your stand point.

I am not against standing and most football clubs allow it, but trying to get around it using flawed legal arguments is not the way.
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It isn't being pedantic, but again, the legislation says fans must be able to watch from designated seated accommodation (which they are) but nowhere does it specifically state that fans have to sit down. ''Strongly implying'' isn't enough.
When you are on an plane, you are specifically told to sit down and fasten your seatbelt, No debate, no implications. Football fans are only told we must be housed in a seated area.
Now the Football Licensing Authority stated it was acceptable for fans to stand up at ''moments of high excitement'' - a term so open to interpretation. During Stuart Pearce's reign, a corner was deemed high excitement! For many the whole game is one of excitement, for some when the team are on the attack or a dirty foul by an opposing player etc etc
If it was against the law to stand, fans would be in court - like they are if they run on the pitch or use racial language. But not one fan has been in court for standing up because it isn't a law. Not one club has had sections closed down because of standing. Why? Because it is not against the law to stand in seated areas.
Yes, clubs have had ticket allocations reduced (end seats taken away) but that is because if fans are standing up, apparently we take up more room and as a result fans are spilling over into the aisle. So that action is due to safety issues and not fans breaking the law.

Oh, OT does have pitch side seats for away fans - they get round that because away fans with disabilities are housed there.... (but that's a different topic)
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
It isn't being pedantic, but again, the legislation says fans must be able to watch from designated seated accommodation (which they are) but nowhere does it specifically state that fans have to sit down. ''Strongly implying'' isn't enough.
When you are on an plane, you are specifically told to sit down and fasten your seatbelt, No debate, no implications. Football fans are only told we must be housed in a seated area.
Now the Football Licensing Authority stated it was acceptable for fans to stand up at ''moments of high excitement'' - a term so open to interpretation. During Stuart Pearce's reign, a corner was deemed high excitement! For many the whole game is one of excitement, for some when the team are on the attack or a dirty foul by an opposing player etc etc
If it was against the law to stand, fans would be in court - like they are if they run on the pitch or use racial language. But not one fan has been in court for standing up because it isn't a law. Not one club has had sections closed down because of standing. Why? Because it is not against the law to stand in seated areas.
Yes, clubs have had ticket allocations reduced (end seats taken away) but that is because if fans are standing up, apparently we take up more room and as a result fans are spilling over into the aisle. So that action is due to safety issues and not fans breaking the law.

Oh, OT does have pitch side seats for away fans - they get round that because away fans with disabilities are housed there.... (but that's a different topic)
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At OT the first section is united fans only, then two levels of mixed accessible seats then the away fans on the 4th level in effect - FSF not a clue. It is hard to claim seated accommodation is where fans are freely allowed to stand all game.
 
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