“The work of God”?

[Ban-jani]

i suppose, if you mean it is the light and nature etc, forgive me if i'm missing that faith of yours
i assume you feel its just true, i have no issue with that never have

the alleged eyewitnesses from the one book in which it has a vested interest in promoting a certain view, and people going to their deaths for whatever reason they believed to be true is simply not credible evidence and you know that whether you want to accept it or not


i don't believe i have mocked you, all i know you had something i think that developed over a few weeks, i don't know what that is, the lightbulb moment shall we say?

my quotes aren't parables, not to my knowledge anyway
i'm equally tired of various Christians inability to provide credible reasons how they know god is the real deal.
shit happens mate

Well even if I didn’t believe in Christ I would be a deist probably, I think the universe has a higher intelligence and I don’t subscribe to materialism. That’s purely on a basis of how the universe has very specific laws and how finely tuned it is... but that’s another argument.

I believe in Christ because of a dream, as I mentioned a few days back on this thread, that prompted me to pick up the Bible and read the New Testament. For many weeks after I wasn’t a believer, I even doubted. I expected, when researching it, to find the whole thing was a complete myth, when reading from scholars critiquing it, I then formed the opinion he was a historical figure and was shocked to learn of the majority of scholars, even atheists, being maximalist (they believe his life was close to the Gospels, not necessarily the miracles or divinity though).

By the time I’d read all the Gospels I had a feeling I knew it was true, it’s hard to put your finger on why.

Others won’t experience that and that’s I have no issue with atheism or atheists, I know why you’re very sceptical.

So you’re right on the feeling point but I believe the eye witnesses as well. The 11 apostles who knew him personally, as a man, some went to their deaths for it.

An eyewitness is credible enough evidence to sometimes get a conviction of murder now, an eyewitness who would rather die than reject what they saw, is even more convincing.

Nobody dies for something they know is bullshit.

You may think they were delusional and that’s your prerogative.

You haven’t mocked but I still have been a lot and I don’t think most are posting with good faith (no pun intended).

 

[tonea2003]

Well even if I didn’t believe in Christ I would be a deist probably, I think the universe has a higher intelligence and I don’t subscribe to materialism. That’s purely on a basis of how the universe has very specific laws and how finely tuned it is... but that’s another argument.

I believe in Christ because of a dream, as I mentioned a few days back on this thread, that prompted me to pick up the Bible and read the New Testament. For many weeks after I wasn’t a believer, I even doubted. I expected, when researching it, to find the whole thing was a complete myth, when reading from scholars critiquing it, I then formed the opinion he was a historical figure and was shocked to learn of the majority of scholars, even atheists, being maximalist (they believe his life was close to the Gospels, not necessarily the miracles or divinity though).

By the time I’d read all the Gospels I had a feeling I knew it was true, it’s hard to put your finger on why.

Others won’t experience that and that’s I have no issue with atheism or atheists, I know why you’re very sceptical.

So you’re right on the feeling point but I believe the eye witnesses as well. The 11 apostles who knew him personally, as a man, some went to their deaths for it.

An eyewitness is credible enough evidence to sometimes get a conviction of murder now, an eyewitness who would rather die than reject what they saw, is even more convincing.

Nobody dies for something they know is bullshit.

who knows what they think they knew, its plausible they were brainwashed to think a certain way, not the first time and won't be the last

You may think they were delusional and that’s your prerogative.

You haven’t mocked but I still have been a lot and I don’t think most are posting with good faith (no pun intended).

i'm always willing to hear a valid reason for a deity
but just because the universe appears/is complex isn't one
until it appears and declares its me i did it all i'll remain sceptical
i'd much rather be watching city :-(

 

[Ban-jani]

who knows what they think they knew, its plausible they were brainwashed to think a certain way, not the first time and won't be the last

i'm always willing to hear a valid reason for a deity
but just because the universe appears/is complex isn't one
until it appears and declares its me i did it all i'll remain sceptical
i'd much rather be watching city :-(

Brainwashed into seeing a dead man rise from the grave is a tough act but again, that’s up to you to form your conclusion.

Do you not think there’s more to our everything than humans being random mutated balls of mush, clinging to an unimportant rock, travelling through an empty universe with no meaning, that are here by sheer chance?

 

[tonea2003]

Brainwashed into seeing a dead man rise from the grave is a tough act but again, that’s up to you to form your conclusion.

brainwashed into believing the message. i don't believe in any of extra ordinary events, that where we differ

Do you not think there’s more to our everything than humans being random mutated balls of mush, clinging to an unimportant rock, travelling through an empty universe with no meaning, that are here by sheer chance?

why not, there is far too many nasties on our earth alone for it not be intelligently designed, just the weather alone
would me any deity an utter bastard to subject its inhabitants to droughts, floods etc
you can even look at the sun as it will blind you as well as giving you a nasty cancer

 

[Ban-jani]

brainwashed into believing the message. i don't believe in any of extra ordinary events, that where we differ

why not, there is far too many nasties on our earth alone for it not be intelligently designed, just the weather alone
would me any deity an utter bastard to subject its inhabitants to droughts, floods etc
you can even look at the sun as it will blind you as well as giving you a nasty cancer

Far play mate, that’s what you get from the universe and you’re more than entitled to that view, I see the wonder and see it differently.

I’m leaving this thread now as I’ve said everything I want to and will agree to disagree.

Hope you have a good new year tomorrow night, hopefully City will be back to winning games soon.

God bless x

 

[Magicpole]

Jesus doesn’t back slavery.

This is one of those Internet related claims like “empty seats” or “Blair’s a war criminal”, people see it and repeat it and it snowballs.

The bible is the word of God according to its believers. Jesus confirmed he supported the Old Testament, so I give you
Ephesians Chapter 6 is the final chapter of this epistle of Paul. There are three main themes in it, including harmony with the family, guidelines for slaves and masters, and fighting against evil.

What you are doing is donning those tap shoes again and trying to divorce Jesus from central tenets of the book you know are appalling. Here's the thing, it's either all true or none of it is. You cannot pick and choose what you accept. Jesus never once said Slavery is wrong. Sometimes silence is endorsement and anyone, never mind Jesus, who saw slavery and the plight of his creation suffering it and said nothing, is morally bankrupt. This is not the actions of a living God, but it is exactly the norm for the morality of the time when the men who concocted these tales took it as a given that slavery was a fact of life, with Paul telling us to respect the masters and the Old Testament giving guidance on how to deal with them.

What is that old saying?

For evil to triumph only requires good men stay silent.

Slavery was as evil then as it has ever been. Jesus lived among it and never condemned it. The best he ever achieved was to urge slave owners to allow the slaves to share a meal at his table after toiling all day for no wages.

That is appalling and no matter how often you and other believers dance around that, you are deluding yourself so you can feel good about the nice stuff.

 

[Ban-jani]

The bible is the word of God according to its believers. Jesus confirmed he supported the Old Testament, so I give you
Ephesians Chapter 6 is the final chapter of this epistle of Paul. There are three main themes in it, including harmony with the family, guidelines for slaves and masters, and fighting against evil.

What you are doing is donning those tap shoes again and trying to divorce Jesus from central tenets of the book you know are appalling. Here's the thing, it's either all true or none of it is. You cannot pick and choose what you accept. Jesus never once said Slavery is wrong. Sometimes silence is endorsement and anyone, never mind Jesus, who saw slavery and the plight of his creation suffering it and said nothing, is morally bankrupt. This is not the actions of a living God, but it is exactly the norm for the morality of the time when the men who concocted these tales took it as a given that slavery was a fact of life, with Paul telling us to respect the masters and the Old Testament giving guidance on how to deal with them.

What is that old saying?

For evil to triumph only requires good men stay silent.

Slavery was as evil then as it has ever been. Jesus lived among it and never condemned it. The best he ever achieved was to urge slave owners to allow the slaves to share a meal at his table after toiling all day for no wages.

That is appalling and no matter how often you and other believers dance around that, you are deluding yourself so you can feel good about the nice stuff.

Why oh why have you reignited this thread on NYE lol?

I am done with it mate.

Have a nice evening and happy New Year.

 

[KS55]

@Ban-jani has left the building.

 

[Ban-jani]

@Ban-jani has left the building.

I keep trying but you tossers keep tagging me in it again.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

@Ban-jani has left the building.

In fairness it was a fearsome question.

What you are doing is trying to divorce Jesus from central tenets of the book you know are appalling. Here's the thing, it's either all true or none of it is.