“The work of God”?

[hilts]

“nothing comes from nothing.“

How do you know?

I googled it once

 

[vmsuhail]

As I’ve said the design of everything is just weird.

If god is that interested in humanity and he cares what we do, eat, shag, think etc. Why make a universe so big and stick us on the outside of some tiny rock that’s exposed to so much danger?

Those dangers and obstacles are what helps us to fully utilize our potentials and capabilities. Life on earth is a test, and God wants us to earn His kingdom rather than being gifted to us. It's our innate nature to appreciate hardwork, toil and struggle than "winning the lottery".

Why go through the process of dinosaurs, wipe them out, then have us evolve from apes?

No idea. Maybe humans are not capable of taming dinosaurs.

Why not inform us properly and not only do so through the words of a couple of people in the desert so long ago?

Things that are precious are not found everywhere. We have to dig deep to find the treasure. Prophethood is not for everyone. Imagine telling to your family and friends that you receive revelation from God and you should be listened to, and that disobeying you is tantamount to disobeying God Himself. Not just once, day after day after day to the same audience (who will turn hostile in a few days) explaining matters of the Unseen, this is not an average person's cup of tea. It's not just a couple of people in the desert. Prophets have been sent to all nations as per Qur'an, but like in the case of Noah(as), most people didn't accept them.

How are tribes in the Amazon supposed to follow it when they don’t have contact with other people?

They'll be judged on their own sense of right and wrong. Qur'an 17:15 "We never punish until we have sent a messenger."

Why make it so unbelievable and then send those that don’t believe it out of pure logic, to eternal hell fire?

They can make their case on Judgement Day.

Why have your only son or your prophet tell the world everything they need to know but not include 100% of science that’s proven to be correct.

Prophet's come to tell us about God and our relationship with Him and our responsibilities. Knowledge of science changes with time, unlike the metaphysical truths.

The Abrahamic religions got how the universe came about, how man got here, gravity, the sun etc. all totally wrong.

Scriptures talk about them as signs of the Creator. The objective is not to illustrate and detail a scientific fact.

Perhaps this verse points to the origin of universe and origin of life.
Qur'an 21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"



There are other linguistic nuances that interests me like for example whenever sun light is mentioned, the word used is "siraj" or "diya" meaning a source of light and whenever moonlight is mentioned it is always "nur" or "muneer" meaning simply light or reflected light.

Why make us attracted to the other sex and then say we should pluck our own eye out before we look at a woman with lust we’re not married to, as it’s the same as adultery?

Well, he also gave us the institution of marriage to cater to that, along with rules of dressing and modesty and guarding the gaze. The prophet taught that we get blessings for the intimate acts between the spouses.

Why create a world in which babies die of starvation and of their own shit, in total misery?

Feeding the poor is a responsibility of the rich countries. The obligatory charity is specifically for this purpose.

Why have us evolve from a particularly violent group of primates?

Why not? God breathed His spirit into us and gave us intellect, free will and divine guidance. We don't have to act like the primates.

Why even have the earth in the first place?

Well, existence is better than non-existence.

Why have mental health and disabilities in the first place?

Humans don't value or appreciate something until they know what it is like to lose it.

Why is the violent and disgusting execution of a human being in the desert the best way to teach the world morality?

1. It is supposed to be violent and disgusting, the very thought of it works as deterrent for most people. India hanged 4 rapists a few days back. America hanged Saddam. The British did it. I find hanging as equally violent and disgusting like beheading.
2. To show the severity of the crime.
3. The person gets absolved of the sin and won't get punished in the Hereafter.

Why have a war lord paedophile prophet the same?

Have you heard of the conquest of Mecca, when not a drop of blood was shed and the opposition surrendered without a fight. The "war lord" and his followers could have taken full revenge on their enemies for 15 years of oppression and driving them out from their homes to Medina. Instead, the prophet forgave them all and asked the followers to do the same. Many accepted the faith and they were welcomed wholeheartedly. That is the height of forgiveness. But, now this is the 'parting of the sea' moment and the take over of the Temple signalled the proofs of prophethood have been established. There is no more questioning after this and God's judgement will be meted out. It's the same what happened to the Israelites who worshipped the golden calf in Moses'(as) absence. They've no excuses after witnessing the sea parting moment.

Do you know the prophet first married at the age of 25, a twice divorced women who was 15 years older to him? They lived together for 25 years, and he did not marry anyone during the time. He married many after that, some for social and political reasons too. The society didn't have issues with age differences at the time. Puberty was considered the minimum age of marriage consummation. Until the 19th century, this was the same throughout the world.

I’ve read large parts of the bible and Koran and I’m sorry mate, within a few pages you can tell it’s the imagination of an ancient idiot.

They've also given meaning and hope to the lives of millions of others and continue to do so.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Are you taking the piss?

 

[vmsuhail]

Are you taking the piss?

Certainly not. Just sharing what I believe in, and I'm pretty sure not a single person here would agree with anything what I wrote.

 

[vmsuhail]

All these books are just fairy tails that were written in times when they could scare people into believing them.

Enlightenment happened 300 years ago yet people are still following these religions and believing in these books in 2020.

Beowulf, King Arthur, Robin Hood... all as credibly reliable as fact as any religion yet we all know they’re just legends.

The reactions to the prophets show that recipients were largely hostile and anything but submissive to the message. You could make a case for David (as) or Solomon(as) as they had authority as well so the people had a duty to listen and obey, but how did Jesus(as) went about scaring people (rabbis,scribes,pharisees) into submission ?

Does enlightenment mean we become super skeptical of all the historical records and deny even the existence of the founder of a major religion ?

 

[Dicko69]

Anyone saying there is no god I've got news for you.
I just went to our freezer and found we have mini vienettas on lollypop sticks

 

[roy.or.r]

I will believe in God if our ban gets overturned and then UEFA and FA relegates the rags and dippers from the Cl and Pl for cheating.

 

[mikemcfc]

You should give 'The Book of Mormon' a try, you won't last two minutes

sounds similar to that other religion, so i've heard, discovering the book of Playboy at puberty.

 

[Ban-jani]

Those dangers and obstacles are what helps us to fully utilize our potentials and capabilities. Life on earth is a test, and God wants us to earn His kingdom rather than being gifted to us. It's our innate nature to appreciate hardwork, toil and struggle than "winning the lottery".

Obstacles and an opportunity to overcome hardship is one thing. Being born into a famine or the middle of a war and dying in your infancy isn’t a test, it’s unnecessary cruelty. By your replies I’m presuming you are a Muslim, it seems to me that god enjoys testing Muslims very hard. He tests them harder than non-Muslims in the west. In Syria, in Iraq, in Kashmir, in China, in Palestine.

I’m not buying the fact it’s a test, not when toddlers are being blown up, starving to death or being killed by a terrible disease.

If I was god I would never create such a world.


No idea. Maybe humans are not capable of taming dinosaurs.

What’s the point in dinosaurs though? Why have them if you’re going to have them for billions of years to just get rid of them and give the world to those that are supposedly your children.

Things that are precious are not found everywhere. We have to dig deep to find the treasure. Prophethood is not for everyone. Imagine telling to your family and friends that you receive revelation from God and you should be listened to, and that disobeying you is tantamount to disobeying God Himself. Not just once, day after day after day to the same audience (who will turn hostile in a few days) explaining matters of the Unseen, this is not an average person's cup of tea. It's not just a couple of people in the desert. Prophets have been sent to all nations as per Qur'an, but like in the case of Noah(as), most people didn't accept them.

The message is weak though, who are we supposed to believe? How do I know that Muhammad is right and Jesus isn’t? They both make extraordinary claims but the only evidence I have is the book. Should I believe Joseph Smith? He made the same claims after all.

They'll be judged on their own sense of right and wrong. Qur'an 17:15 "We never punish until we have sent a messenger."

At least that’s something. Being punished for being a contrarian isn’t moral though. Questioning someone claiming divinity is logical, not punishable in my view.

They can make their case on Judgement Day.

If it’s true I’ve no chance - “sorry God I thought Islam was a load of nonsense that didn’t help me understand the world nor the universe and the story of Muhammad going to the moon on a unicorn made me laugh. Oh and maybe don’t be so antisemitic in the bloody first chapter. Please show me mercy though”

Prophet's come to tell us about God and our relationship with Him and our responsibilities. Knowledge of science changes with time, unlike the metaphysical truths.

Not a word on the Big Bang, evolution, gravity, black holes, microorganisms, dinosaurs etc. etc.

Instead, in one of only a few messages from god over the years, let’s dwell on cattle ownership and what to do in a village dispute.

Scriptures talk about them as signs of the Creator. The objective is not to illustrate and detail a scientific fact.

What signs?

Perhaps this verse points to the origin of universe and origin of life.
Qur'an 21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

That’s not true though is it, the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe and the earth was created via and exploding star.

There are other linguistic nuances that interests me like for example whenever sun light is mentioned, the word used is "siraj" or "diya" meaning a source of light and whenever moonlight is mentioned it is always "nur" or "muneer" meaning simply light or reflected light.

That’s not evidence anyone penning the Quran knew anything scientific. They obviously and understandably only knew as much as any other advanced primate at that time.


Well, he also gave us the institution of marriage to cater to that, along with rules of dressing and modesty and guarding the gaze. The prophet taught that we get blessings for the intimate acts between the spouses.

Being married to someone is incredibly innocuous, why does the supreme leader of the universe care?

Feeding the poor is a responsibility of the rich countries. The obligatory charity is specifically for this purpose.

Absolutely true but why should richer humans pick up the shoddy work god has done? Do a better job in the first place and everyone can start on a level playing field to prove themselves.

Why not? God breathed His spirit into us and gave us intellect, free will and divine guidance. We don't have to act like the primates.

Well humans evolved from Chimpanzees and Bonobos and it’s extremely evident in our behaviour. The act of war over resources can be seen in chimpanzees and they treat each other, in groups, similarly to how humans on every single continent do. We are related to them and it shows.

It’s innate in us and there’s no getting away from that.

If gods plan was to evolve us from a particular species, he chose a very violent one and then wonders why humans are like that.

Well, existence is better than non-existence.

It is but he could have made a much fairer and better existence for everyone and not gone down the test route. Of putting us through a terrifying and cruel assault course just to prove we can spend the rest of eternity worshipping him.

Humans don't value or appreciate something until they know what it is like to lose it.

That is true in a lot of ways but again, a baby doesn’t know what it’s lost and yet they’re punished.

1. It is supposed to be violent and disgusting, the very thought of it works as deterrent for most people. India hanged 4 rapists a few days back. America hanged Saddam. The British did it. I find hanging as equally violent and disgusting like beheading.
2. To show the severity of the crime.
3. The person gets absolved of the sin and won't get punished in the Hereafter.

I’m not against capital punishment as an idea. I’m against the idea of using it to kill an innocent person by torturing them, not just hanging or shooting them to kill quickly, but to crucify them to teach the world a lesson. It’s not moral teaching, it’s barbarism.


Have you heard of the conquest of Mecca, when not a drop of blood was shed and the opposition surrendered without a fight. The "war lord" and his followers could have taken full revenge on their enemies for 15 years of oppression and driving them out from their homes to Medina. Instead, the prophet forgave them all and asked the followers to do the same. Many accepted the faith and they were welcomed wholeheartedly. That is the height of forgiveness. But, now this is the 'parting of the sea' moment and the take over of the Temple signalled the proofs of prophethood have been established. There is no more questioning after this and God's judgement will be meted out. It's the same what happened to the Israelites who worshipped the golden calf in Moses'(as) absence. They've no excuses after witnessing the sea parting moment.

That’s great but Muhammad did also kill a lot of people. I don’t blame him for this, that’s what just happened then, I blame him for making up he spoke to an angel and he had divine instruction and I blame him for child fucking.

Do you know the prophet first married at the age of 25, a twice divorced women who was 15 years older to him? They lived together for 25 years, and he did not marry anyone during the time. He married many after that, some for social and political reasons too. The society didn't have issues with age differences at the time. Puberty was considered the minimum age of marriage consummation. Until the 19th century, this was the same throughout the world.

He was also married Aisha, who was aged 6 when she was given to him and aged 9/10 when she lived with him.

Therefore, he’s a fucking nonce.

They've also given meaning and hope to the lives of millions of others and continue to do so.

No doubt they do but they also halt progress and have resulted in an unthinkable amount of pain, suffering and death, as they still do to this day.

They’re also totally false and therefore not worth it.

I am an atheist and I’m totally content with life and I take pride that my moral compass is formed by me and not big brother.

Apologies for lack of sources related to religious text, I’ve got some bits to do before I finish work for the day and go on my one walk to exercise as instructed.

Replies above in red.

 

[tonea2003]

Certainly not. Just sharing what I believe in, and I'm pretty sure not a single person here would agree with anything what I wrote.

some staggering responses in there i must say,every now and then blind faith saddens me

 

[Two Gun Bob]

The reactions to the prophets show that recipients were largely hostile and anything but submissive to the message. You could make a case for David (as) or Solomon(as) as they had authority as well so the people had a duty to listen and obey, but how did Jesus(as) went about scaring people (rabbis,scribes,pharisees) into submission ?

Does enlightenment mean we become super skeptical of all the historical records and deny even the existence of the founder of a major religion ?

Mate I have no penchant to offend as you appear of a pleasant disposition but your creator is in need of a swift kick in his/her/it's bollocks/flaps to bring it to it's senses. If indeed it does exist then without reservation it has to be one poorly mo-fo with requirement to learn the basics of humility compassion and love. Poll pot or Adolf Hitler could not begin to shed light on your deity in it's ways of abject cruelty. Barbary most foul came the cry and it should therefore placed under immediate house arrest then brought back down to Earth and placed on trial. Maybe genocide would be a good starting block. How does your God plead to these charges?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Homo sapiens are just animals with some intelligence (we aren’t as intelligent as we like to think we are, however!) and there’s nothing else remarkable about us.

There are animals out there that are stronger, faster, longer living, can live underwater, can fly, can change colour and shape, use sonar, can change sex, can change into a different animal, and that have been around for a lot longer than we have... we are no more special than any of them.

This virus is another example (of so many) showing that we are no different to a pig or a bat; we contract the same viruses as them, off them and can give it them back.

We are just an organism that is living off planet Earth, just like any other... being born, living, dying and rotting in the ground, just like everything else that has ever or will ever live on this planet until the planet or our star (which is really what religions, or mythology as religions should be called, are all about. Not gods or prophets or angels, the Sun!) dies.

There’s no spaghetti armed jelly man hiding behind the Moon playing ‘Humans’ on his PlayStaion 5 dictating what happens to us. This virus is the work of a lack of intelligence in Homo sapiens (see we’re not as intelligent as we like to think we are!) and is not the work of any outside entity, certainly not this made-up god.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Nothing comes from nothing

So what created “god” then?

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Those dangers and obstacles are what helps us to fully utilize our potentials and capabilities. Life on earth is a test, and God wants us to earn His kingdom rather than being gifted to us. It's our innate nature to appreciate hardwork, toil and struggle than "winning the lottery".


No idea. Maybe humans are not capable of taming dinosaurs.


Things that are precious are not found everywhere. We have to dig deep to find the treasure. Prophethood is not for everyone. Imagine telling to your family and friends that you receive revelation from God and you should be listened to, and that disobeying you is tantamount to disobeying God Himself. Not just once, day after day after day to the same audience (who will turn hostile in a few days) explaining matters of the Unseen, this is not an average person's cup of tea. It's not just a couple of people in the desert. Prophets have been sent to all nations as per Qur'an, but like in the case of Noah(as), most people didn't accept them.


They'll be judged on their own sense of right and wrong. Qur'an 17:15 "We never punish until we have sent a messenger."


They can make their case on Judgement Day.


Prophet's come to tell us about God and our relationship with Him and our responsibilities. Knowledge of science changes with time, unlike the metaphysical truths.


Scriptures talk about them as signs of the Creator. The objective is not to illustrate and detail a scientific fact.

Perhaps this verse points to the origin of universe and origin of life.
Qur'an 21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"



There are other linguistic nuances that interests me like for example whenever sun light is mentioned, the word used is "siraj" or "diya" meaning a source of light and whenever moonlight is mentioned it is always "nur" or "muneer" meaning simply light or reflected light.



Well, he also gave us the institution of marriage to cater to that, along with rules of dressing and modesty and guarding the gaze. The prophet taught that we get blessings for the intimate acts between the spouses.


Feeding the poor is a responsibility of the rich countries. The obligatory charity is specifically for this purpose.


Why not? God breathed His spirit into us and gave us intellect, free will and divine guidance. We don't have to act like the primates.


Well, existence is better than non-existence.


Humans don't value or appreciate something until they know what it is like to lose it.


1. It is supposed to be violent and disgusting, the very thought of it works as deterrent for most people. India hanged 4 rapists a few days back. America hanged Saddam. The British did it. I find hanging as equally violent and disgusting like beheading.
2. To show the severity of the crime.
3. The person gets absolved of the sin and won't get punished in the Hereafter.


Have you heard of the conquest of Mecca, when not a drop of blood was shed and the opposition surrendered without a fight. The "war lord" and his followers could have taken full revenge on their enemies for 15 years of oppression and driving them out from their homes to Medina. Instead, the prophet forgave them all and asked the followers to do the same. Many accepted the faith and they were welcomed wholeheartedly. That is the height of forgiveness. But, now this is the 'parting of the sea' moment and the take over of the Temple signalled the proofs of prophethood have been established. There is no more questioning after this and God's judgement will be meted out. It's the same what happened to the Israelites who worshipped the golden calf in Moses'(as) absence. They've no excuses after witnessing the sea parting moment.

Do you know the prophet first married at the age of 25, a twice divorced women who was 15 years older to him? They lived together for 25 years, and he did not marry anyone during the time. He married many after that, some for social and political reasons too. The society didn't have issues with age differences at the time. Puberty was considered the minimum age of marriage consummation. Until the 19th century, this was the same throughout the world.


They've also given meaning and hope to the lives of millions of others and continue to do so.

I’ve been offended maybe once, at a push twice, in my time on bluemoon, not sure where this sits...

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I’ve been offended maybe once, at a push twice, in my time on bluemoon, not sure where this sits...

I particularly liked this bit; “They'll be judged on their own sense of right and wrong. Qur'an 17:15 "We never punish until we have sent a messenger."”

 

[JASR]

We need to learn the language, culture and history of the times these books were written to understand the "absurdities".
If as these sites proclaim they are full of contradictions, then every believer would be leading a confused life. The key difference I find is the skeptics take up verses from here and there and match against each other, whereas the students of these books take all of the verses on a subject as a whole and build an understanding, with the verses that are specific limiting the scope of the verses that are generic. As the saying goes, the best exegesis of the scripture is the scripture itself.

I think you’ve done yourself in there.

‘understand absurdities’ - yes, and realise that they didn’t know much about the inner workings of science and it’s ongoing quest to learn rather than stick with dogma., so explained lots of things in any form they could. Also being led by a charismatic charlatan, who has unswerving acolytes, is happening still, you only have to look around the world to see ... Trump being the obvious, people can be swayed by anything they choose to cling to.
You say learn from the past...

‘Proclaim contradictions’ - they lay it out quite simply, one column with quotes saying one thing , another column with quotes saying the complete opposite.
the contradictions are at a pretty simple level, along the lines of:
‘Does god love everyone?’

From your reply, You clearly haven’t enlightened yourself by reading anything on the website and stuck with the dogma you believe.

heyho.

 

[aguero93:20]

There’s no spaghetti armed jelly man hiding behind the Moon playing ‘Humans’ on his PlayStaion 5 dictating what happens to us.

Heathen.

 

[JASR]

Qur'an 21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

So the entire universe and a small insignificant little blueish planet in some very nondescript galaxy were the same thing, until approx 6000 years ago allah seperated them.
ok...

It always strikes me as very odd that any god(s) are proclaimed to have invested so much time and effort into this insignificant blue dot and it's strange collection of bipedal humanoids.

As I'm now on a PC:
Contradications: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html
Simple contradiction on alcohol: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/alcohol.html

Now I will give you that the koran has far less total issues than the bible. But that's to be expected by your own reasoning, that we evolve to understand more, and not get hemmed in by dogma.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

If you believe in God, isn't everything the work of God?

 

[Sir peace frog]

I saw a program the other day saying what could of been responsible, wet markets,wet markets are markets in china where they slaughter the animal at the market,they keep these live animals in cages stacked up on each other,when it comes to the animals below they are soaked in piss , shit and Christ knows what else,these animals are then slaughtered at the market then consumed by the human,hardly surprising shits hit the fan,as for GOD ,don't be fucking silly