“The work of God”?

[Magicpole]

Are there any contemporary sources from people without a clear interest in the story that Jesus was the son of God. Paul may have been alive, but he was also an apostle, so he would clearly have an interest in adding or emphasising details that would make Jesus' life fit in with a prophesies of pre-existing Jewish theology. In the same way that Muhammad is written to do the same thing in Islam.

The same book said the world and universe was created in days. It said the earth was created before light, the sun. It said the earth was flat. That Adam and Eve were real. That monsters lived. That unicorns lived. That there was a census that Joe and Mary Doll went to be part of, it didnt happen. That the jews wandered the desert for 40 years, they didn't. Israel tried to find archaeological evidence, found nothing.

So, because a book filled with bullshit and lies says something, does that mean it hapoebed, when all the above was also claimed to be true and held to be true until science showed it was the ramblings of Bronze Age men who knew no better. God would have known if he existed, he doesn't or he has dementia and can't remember what he did. There are also not one word in Roman historical records about a guy who could draw thousands and who was foretold to banish the Romans, not a word. Yet we know they ruthlessly waged war on any threat, but not Jesus. Was it the Life of Brian Roman soldiers who never asked Rome, what do we do with this guy? Not one word.

It's almost as if they didn't say anything, because it never happened.

Then there's slavery, allowed to beat them unpunished if they survive 3 days. Told by Jeezy to respect your masters. Killing your family because they don't worship him. Or women being chattels and property. It's Bronze Age customs written in many gospels, they all contradict each other. It's a myth.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

The same book said the world and universe was created in days. It said the earth was created before light, the sun. It said thecwarth was flat. That Adam and Eve were real. That monsters lived. That unucirbs lived. That there was a census that Joe and Mary Doll went to be part of, it didnt happen. That the jews wandered the desert for 40 years, they didn't. Israel tried to find archaeological evidence, found nothing.

So, because a book filled with bullshit and lies says something, does that mean it d7d, when all the above was also claimed to be true and held to be true 7ntil.scuence showed it was the rambk7ngs of Bronze Age men who knew no better. God would have known if he existed, he doesn't or he has dementia and can't remember what he did. There are also not one word 8n Roman historical records about a guy who could r4aw thousands and who was foretold to banish the Romans not a word. Yet we know they ruthlessly waged war on any threat, but not Jesus. Was it the Life of Brian Roman soldiers who never asked Rome, what do we do with this guy? Not one word.

It's almost as if they didn't say anything, because it never happened.

Then there's slavery, allowed to hest them unpunished if they survive 3 days. Told by Jeezy to resoect your masters. Killing your family because they don't worship him. Or women being chattels and property. It's Bronze Age customs written in many gospels, they call contradict each other. It's a myth.

a post of yours I actually agree with. Blimey.

 

[Magicpole]

a post of yours I actually agree with. Blimey.

Theres always a first time. But, at least thanks for reading them. :)

 

[Ban-jani]

Indeed. Maybe not called Jesus as there's no record of that name in any roman texts of the time. But there are records of plenty of religious men who had followers and were executed. Jesus is probably a mash up of them when the first books were written.

The rest though? Utter nonsense aimed at the great unwashed and uneducated to show that this new God/ son of God was better than the pagan of choice that they worshipped.

This isn’t true mate.

There’s a Roman letter from 64 AD that talks of “Christus” suffering the “extreme penalty” in Jerusalem.

Then there’s a Jewish historian who wrote about “a wise man” called “Jesus” (well translated in English to Jesus), being in Judea. He also mentions James, the brother of Jesus and he calls James “the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ”.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Well “piecing hands and feet” is pretty profound. The gone off wine part is also very accurate as it’s in the Gospels, when He’s on the cross.

There’s many more, including an accurate description of who He was crucified with, two thieves either side.

The tense in which it’s described is common in the Bible, as it’s a statement of Christ being infinite. He also says “before Abraham was, I AM”.

The book of John does this a lot in its opening chapters.

The context around the statements is a prophecy being told, it’s not describing a past event.

This is simply not true though. The context of Psalms 22 is the author (represented as David) crying out for God to save him and his people in a moment of need. God then does so and he promises to serve him. It's not a prophesy at all. Earlier in the same verse it says "Strong bulls of Bashan encircle me." That's a clear context of a conflict with a neighbouring group from what is now Syria that appears as an adversary of the Israelites several times throughout the Old Testament. And it does mention piercing hands and feet, but the full passage also mentions loads of other stuff that then doesn't get quoted on a "10 times the Old Testament predicted Jesus" website, because they don't support the pre-existing conclusion.

 

[Ban-jani]

This is simply not true though. The context of Psalms 22 is the author (represented as David) crying out for God to save him and his people in a moment of need. God then does so and he promises to serve him. It's not a prophesy at all. Earlier in the same verse it says "Strong bulls of Bashan encircle me." That's a clear context of a conflict with a neighbouring group from what is now Syria that appears as an adversary of the Israelites several times throughout the Old Testament. And it does mention piercing hands and feet, but the full passage also mentions loads of other stuff that then doesn't get quoted on a "10 times the Old Testament predicted Jesus" website, because they don't support the pre-existing conclusion.

Yes it is. It’s refuted it’s David, many Jewish people view it as Jewish people in general, and their suffering, rather than one man specifically.

It’s also in a section of the book that has prophecies.

Here is another quote from Psalms and is taken from Wikipedia:

And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" This is the only saying which appears in more than one Gospel, and is a quote from Psalm 22:1 (or probably Psalm 42:9).

 

[urban genie]

This is simply not true though. The context of Psalms 22 is the author (represented as David) crying out for God to save him and his people in a moment of need. God then does so and he promises to serve him. It's not a prophesy at all. Earlier in the same verse it says "Strong bulls of Bashan encircle me." That's a clear context of a conflict with a neighbouring group from what is now Syria that appears as an adversary of the Israelites several times throughout the Old Testament. And it does mention piercing hands and feet, but the full passage also mentions loads of other stuff that then doesn't get quoted on a "10 times the Old Testament predicted Jesus" website, because they don't support the pre-existing conclusion.

Does,'t matter really if the OT did predict anything in the NT.

As comments on the messiah in the OT will be added to the jesus story to validate him by his followers


Any group in those ancient times that wants to push a messsage will use old tales and prophecies as propaganda

Not a reply to you specifically but may as well save mutiple posting v

As for historians quoting jesus in thier books, the books are post AD so all will have read marks gospel or heard of it.

 

[journolud]

The only convicted paedo I knew was an active Boys Brigade officer in my local Methodist church.

A meaningless addition to the discussion

 

[Ban-jani]

Does,'t matter really if the OT did predict anything in the NT.

As comments on the messiah in the OT will be added to the jesus story to validate him by his followers


Any group in those ancient times that wants to push a messsage will use old tales and prophecies as propaganda

Not a reply to you specifically but may as well save mutiple posting v

As for historians quoting jesus in thier books, the books are post AD so all will have read marks gospel or heard of it.

Josephus was a first century Jewish Historian who wrote about Jesus being the “so-called Christ”.

Also, because the Gospels were written, it doesn’t mean they were being distributed.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

You are all just Christianophobic. :)

I’m religiophobic. I think all religions should be “declassified” to mythologies. All the main world religions have as much credibility as any old extinct religions like Greek and Norse that are called mythologies.

Slightly off topic, but popped into my head as I was reading.

Have you ever been on your own or even walking down the street and are sure ypu heard someone call your name pr talk to you?

Think it has happened to me maybe 20 odd times in my life. A bloke at work teaes ago whp was religious used to say it was your gaurdian angel checking on you, personally I just think your mind sometimes fuckabout subconsciously

We are simply conditioned to hear and see things that are familiar to us.

When we look at clouds or patterns on a wallpaper or objects, we recognise faces in them. It’s called Face Pareidolia.

When it comes to sounds and names, where we can hear a train wheel screeching against the tracks from a mile away but our ear recognises it as our name being called. You even get it when you listen to music and hear your name in the lyrics (but when you read the lyrics, it’s something different). It’s called Audio Pareidolia.

When we see and hear things in dreams, they are images or sounds we’ve heard in real life, stored in our memory probably from a film or Google Images, back through history they’ll have been the bloke at a market they visited five years previously but don’t actively remember who they are when awake. We attach significance to those things through our societal conditioning.

If society had never made up this “god” or “Jesus”, we wouldn’t see their face on a ready salted crisp or think we’ve been visited in a dream because it wouldn’t be within our human conditioning to know what they are.