“The work of God”?

denislawsbackheel said:
I have never seen so many philosophical skyhooks in one place.
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Although I am inclined to favour what Watts states in the essay of his that I quoted from, I really don’t know if the experiences he describes are genuine or not. I haven’t experienced anything like that and it all depends, I suppose, on the extent to which one privileges subjective experience over science.

It’s an intriguing area though and the Johns Hopkins research I mentioned upthread makes it even more so.

This is from Pollan’s book:

‘Completed studies suggest that psilocybin - or rather, the mystical state of consciousness that psilocybin occasions - may be useful in treating both addiction and the existential stress that often debilitates people facing a terminal diagnosis. When we last met, Griffiths [one of the researchers] was about to submit an article reporting striking results in the lab’s trial using psilocybin to treat the anxiety and depression of cancer patients; the study found one of the largest treatment effects ever demonstrated for a psychiatric intervention. The majority of volunteers who had a mystical experience reported that their fear of death had either greatly diminished or completely disappeared.’

Of course (and Pollan immediately admits this), hard questions immediately arise about the meaning and authority of such experiences. Are they ‘all in the mind’, nothing more than some kind of toxic delerium? Or do they, as many of the psilocybin recipients themselves believe, originate from ‘out there’ or ‘beyond’?

It’s certainly fascinating to read about and is taking my mind off some of the hell that’s breaking loose all around us right now.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s purely about others writing about them and Jesus has more than what’s deemed as acceptable, normally 2 different sources, when historians decide on whether it’s likely someone existed.

As I’ve said, 10 minutes with the bible and even an averagely intelligent person knows it’s crap.

Even the moral aspects
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whom might they be? none from eyewitnesses though. at least plato was socrates pupil,

its a rather moot point whether he existed or not, its about divinity
 
tonea2003 said:
whom might they be? none from eyewitnesses though. at least plato was socrates pupil,

its a rather moot point whether he existed or not, its about divinity
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I totally agree with your last point and on that one he’s lacking.

It’s very normal for people to write about someone who existed after death, in the ancient world.

Many couldn’t read or write so information was passed via word of mouth.

There were also two versions of Jesus, had his brother been the one who had owned the story and not Paul, he would have been described as a Jewish Rabbi preacher.
 
Ban-jani said:
I totally agree with your last point and on that one he’s lacking.

It’s very normal for people to write about someone who existed after death, in the ancient world.

Many couldn’t read or write so information was passed via word of mouth.

There were also two versions of Jesus, had his brother been the one who had owned the story and not Paul, he would have been described as a Jewish Rabbi preacher.
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i will keep coming back to the point there were many writers about at the time and not one mentions a jesus in any shape or form

word of mouth is hardly susbstantial evidence, we all know how chinese whispers go
 
tonea2003 said:
i will keep coming back to the point there were many writers about at the time and not one mentions a jesus in any shape or form

word of mouth is hardly susbstantial evidence, we all know how chinese whispers go
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Historians often take that as enough. Literacy wasn’t popular back then.
 
tonea2003 said:
there was enough literal people about but not one ever mentions this guy in any shape or form, i get it if he was just another "joe public" why would they.
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He was one of many preachers at the time, there were hundreds of them just in Galilee.

Jesus only built up more of a cult following towards the end.

There’s a measurement of judging if someone should be presumed to be real and Jesus meets it, I’ll dig it out.

Again, I don’t think he was no more than a deluded preacher.
 
Ban-jani said:
He was one of many preachers at the time, there were hundreds of them just in Galilee.

Jesus only built up more of a cult following towards the end.

There’s a measurement of judging if someone should be presumed to be real and Jesus meets it, I’ll dig it out.

Again, I don’t think he was no more than a deluded preacher.
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again what evidence is there for that.... there isn't any. he isn't mentioned by anyone anywhere around at the time

by the way i don't think you believe in a god
 
A lot of scholars beleive a man called jesus son of joseph was on the records and was also recorded to be a father of Judah.

In fact in many of the non cannonical bibles jesus's family are mentioned and angels are refered to as children of god and Jesus is referefed to an an angel of the lord, not his exclusive son.

Many preachers around that time were called nhels of the lord, so he could have existed and just been another preacher who had a devoted folliwing.
 
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idahoblues said:
You should give 'The Book of Mormon' a try, you won't last two minutes
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I don't really do theatre or musicals and the like but I am due to see this in July(?) on the recommendation of a mate, obviously circumstance looks as though it will dictate that I still won't get to see it.........

I was actually looking forward to it to be fair
 
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