2020 US Elections

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Dax777 said:
Here is how I see it.

Democrats want every eligible person to vote and to achieve that they want very little barriers to voting. Thus, they often accuse Republicans of Suppresing the vote anytime Republicans putting in requirements for voting.

Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting. Thus, they want rules that apply to everyone in other to guarantee only those legally allowed to vote actually vote. Thus, they often accuse Democrats of commiting Voter Fraud by clearing the barriers to the perpetration of fraud.

If you belong to one side or the other, ot as the case is here often, if you hate one particular guy or his side, then you are likely to recite the talking point of the other side and believe everything else besides that is false or irrelevant.

Now, the legitimate claims and concerns of the 2 sides above notwithstanding both do partake in actions that diminish the legitimacy of elections.

State officials shutting down polling places or mail in drop off spots is a despicable act ( in my opinion) as it limits the voters access and opportunity to cast their vote.

On the other hand, Suing to have candidates kicked off the ballot is also a despicable act (again, in my opinion) as it limits the voters choices of candidates to whom they'd willingly cast their vote.

Now both of the above actions can actually be legitimate. A technicality error on the part of a minor candidate is that candidates fault. Opening an opportunity for the their legitimate dismissal.

Similarly, a State may have limited poll workers especially in times of Covid and thus limit the amount of options (granted, they'd likely target where the limitations will occur to favor the outcome they'd prefer), but this too could be legitimate.

Legitimacy of these actions however may not foster better democracy.

That said, there are illegal actions being perpetrated by both parties. There are well known instances of fraud. And when I say well known instances, I'm talking about prosecuted and convicted cases.

The existence of these cases (and there are lots of them) makes legitimate concerns of fraud a real issue. No matter how much one side plays it down

There are illegitimate actions by both Democrat and Republicans or their adjacent as it relates to fostering democracy.

The talking point of one side (in this case the Democrats) exemplified by the Domalino post does not change what's true about Suppression, Fraud and tactics that overall diminishes Democracy.

It wasn't just for me though, clearly many including his staff heard exactly what I heard and made him correct the record.
Click to expand...

Bollocks.
 
Dax777 said:
Here is how I see it.

Democrats want every eligible person to vote and to achieve that they want very little barriers to voting. Thus, they often accuse Republicans of Suppresing the vote anytime Republicans putting in requirements for voting.

Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting. Thus, they want rules that apply to everyone in other to guarantee only those legally allowed to vote actually vote. Thus, they often accuse Democrats of commiting Voter Fraud by clearing the barriers to the perpetration of fraud.

If you belong to one side or the other, ot as the case is here often, if you hate one particular guy or his side, then you are likely to recite the talking point of the other side and believe everything else besides that is false or irrelevant.

Now, the legitimate claims and concerns of the 2 sides above notwithstanding both do partake in actions that diminish the legitimacy of elections.

State officials shutting down polling places or mail in drop off spots is a despicable act ( in my opinion) as it limits the voters access and opportunity to cast their vote.

On the other hand, Suing to have candidates kicked off the ballot is also a despicable act (again, in my opinion) as it limits the voters choices of candidates to whom they'd willingly cast their vote.

Now both of the above actions can actually be legitimate. A technicality error on the part of a minor candidate is that candidates fault. Opening an opportunity for the their legitimate dismissal.

Similarly, a State may have limited poll workers especially in times of Covid and thus limit the amount of options (granted, they'd likely target where the limitations will occur to favor the outcome they'd prefer), but this too could be legitimate.

Legitimacy of these actions however may not foster better democracy.

That said, there are illegal actions being perpetrated by both parties. There are well known instances of fraud. And when I say well known instances, I'm talking about prosecuted and convicted cases.

The existence of these cases (and there are lots of them) makes legitimate concerns of fraud a real issue. No matter how much one side plays it down

There are illegitimate actions by both Democrat and Republicans or their adjacent as it relates to fostering democracy.

The talking point of one side (in this case the Democrats) exemplified by the Domalino post does not change what's true about Suppression, Fraud and tactics that overall diminishes Democracy.

It wasn't just for me though, clearly many including his staff heard exactly what I heard and made him correct the record.
Click to expand...
Got as far as this in your post.
“Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting.“
In reality Republicans only want people who are going to vote Republican to vote. That’s why they’re making it difficult for people to vote in majority Democrat areas.
Couldn’t be arsed reading the rest.
 
west didsblue said:
Got as far as this in your post.
“Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting.“
In reality Republicans only want people who are going to vote Republican to vote. That’s why they’re making it difficult for people to vote in majority Democrat areas.
Couldn’t be arsed reading the rest.
Click to expand...
Snap. Although I went for ‘Bollocks’. I’m in a pithy mood.
 
west didsblue said:
Got as far as this in your post.
“Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting.“
In reality Republicans only want people who are going to vote Republican to vote. That’s why they’re making it difficult for people to vote in majority Democrat areas.
Couldn’t be arsed reading the rest.
Click to expand...
Yeah, same here. No point in reading beyond that particular mistruth.
 
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west didsblue said:
Got as far as this in your post.
“Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting.“
In reality Republicans only want people who are going to vote Republican to vote. That’s why they’re making it difficult for people to vote in majority Democrat areas.
Couldn’t be arsed reading the rest.
Click to expand...
You stole my post. I got exactly to that sentence and decided the rest was null and void.
 
Gaudion M said:
Yep.

This is an academic study of the issue at congress level.



Click to expand...
You only have to look at Ohio.

Mr Shouty No Jacket, Jim Jordan would not have been elected to the House if it weren't for some serious gerrymandering.

www.cleveland.com

Fixing Ohio's gerrymandering problem - Out of Line: Impact 2017 and Beyond

cleveland.com launches series exploring the impact of gerrymandering and searching for a fix as part of its Impact 2017 and Beyond series.
www.cleveland.com www.cleveland.com
 
Gaudion M said:
Yep.

This is an academic study of the issue at congress level.



Click to expand...
If the Dems win both houses and the Presidency there's a lot of undoing that will need to be done to get the system anything like fair for the next election. The problem is they can't undo the stacking of the courts with conservatives which will be used to try and block every attempt to put the system anywhere near right.
 
west didsblue said:
If the Dems win both houses and the Presidency there's a lot of undoing that will need to be done to get the system anything like fair for the next election. The problem is they can't undo the stacking of the courts with conservatives which will be used to try and block every attempt to put the system anywhere near right.
Click to expand...
They need to win big in the election to stand any chance of getting things straightened out.
 
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west didsblue said:
If the Dems win both houses and the Presidency there's a lot of undoing that will need to be done to get the system anything like fair for the next election. The problem is they can't undo the stacking of the courts with conservatives which will be used to try and block every attempt to put the system anywhere near right.
Click to expand...
One of the many reasons why their constitution is wank.
 
Dax777 said:
Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting. Thus, they want rules that apply to everyone in other to guarantee only those legally allowed to vote actually vote.
Click to expand...

You know this is a lie. Why do you bother repeating it?

Even the republicans don't pretend this is true -

“Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places. Let’s start protecting our voters. We know where they are ... Let’s start playing offense a little bit. That’s what you’re going to see in 2020. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program.”

“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again,”

“I don’t want everybody to vote,” Paul Weyrich, an influential conservative activist, said in 1980. “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

Mitch McConnell called the democrats voting rights act, and law which would let more people vote by making elections a national holiday "a power grab". Because everyone fucking knows that the Republicans only win if they can disenfranchise millions of people.
 
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