2020 US Elections

[Silva_Spell]

But your constitution is manifestly wank.

Yea, it only created the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world, a country that defeated 2 of the most evil states ever and also put humans on the moon. Total wank.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

That argument is predicated on the basis that what is written in there is relevant to the twenty first century. Some of it is, much of it isn’t.

The system of picking SCOTUS Judges being a case in point for the latter, which has actually made the scenario you envisage more likely.

A system based on lifespan and capacity that was conceived when medicine was basically in the dark ages. How can that possibly be relevant today?

Your country appears to be slowly losing its sanity. Can’t people see all this division is going to end very badly?

I’ve said it before but I can see individual States wanting to secede from the Union in the next 20 years if this carries on, especially if the Second Amendment remains untouched, which it will, of course. Think there will be one or two at least calling for it. Maybe California. Whether they’ll be allowed to is another matter, of course. It would be a disaster for the US in terms of status, economics and the military implications could be catastrophic; that’s a lot of coastline to defend.

Not sure about civil war though, but who knows, I guess.

I totally get the idea that the USA is done — certainly the moral authority we think we once had and may have has been damaged, perhaps irreparably. We may have seen America’s apex, but I am an optimist at heart, and I suspect folks are going to be surprised at what eventually happens if Trump get shellacked. Just in my life, America survived the late 60s and segregation which was just a kinder name for apartheid. We survived Nixon — a flat out criminal — and then an awful recession and 18 percent interest rates. We survived the global financial crisis (which we caused) and were an inch away from the banking system shutting down. Somewhere out there is a Reaganesque or FDR-like man or woman who can figure out a message of reunification. Much of the right is sounding so wild-eyed and desperate and frightened and frightening because they sense the death-rattle of their party (the old guard in it at any rate) approaching after letting Trump accede in what amounted to putting all your chips on 45 at the roulette table while the ball creeps closer to double zero. I absolutely get why Trump had support — but is there another Trump? Will Republicans or the country risk it or are the majority of Americans on their guard after taking democracy for granted? And never underestimate a country that can feed, clothe and power itself many times over — not just the US, any nation.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yea, it only created the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world, a country that defeated 2 of the most evil states ever and also put humans on the moon. Total wank.

All over fifty years ago. Is, not was.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I totally get the idea that the USA is done — certainly the moral authority we think we once had and may have has been damaged, perhaps irreparably. We may have seen America’s apex, but I am an optimist at heart, but I really believe folks are going to be surprised at what eventually happens if Trump get shellacked. Just in my life, America survived the late 60s and segregation which was just a kinder name for apartheid. We survived Nixon — a flat out criminal — and then an awful recession and 18 percent interest rates. We survived the global financial crisis (which we caused) and were an inch away from the banking system shutting down. Somewhere out there is a Reaganesque or FDR-like man or woman who can figure out a message of reunification. Much of the right is sounding so wild-eyed and desperate because they sense the death-rattle of their party (the old guard in it at any rate) approaching after letting Trump accede in what amounted to putting all your chips on 45 at the roulette table. I absolutely get why Trump had support — but is there another Trump? Will Republicans or the country risk it or are the majority of Americans on their guard after taking democracy for granted? And never underestimate a country that can feed, clothe and power itself many times over — not just the US, any nation.

That’s all fair comment, which is why I built the timescales in.

 

[Silva_Spell]

All over fifty years ago. Is, not was.

It's still the richest, most powerful country, and it's still not even close.

The USSR collapsed less than 50 years ago, and the fact the moon landings were so long ago is just further proof of how great the US Constitution is.

When it comes to the US Const. there's no "is" vs "was"

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

That’s all fair comment, which is why I built the timescales in.

You’re nice to say so but I could also be totally wrong! I feel wrong at the moment. I am uneasy, and slightly depressed. It’s been harder on my teenage kids than me who are trying make sense of all this.

But you know — somehow it’s hard to be as scared of a lunatic in the White House destroying America when you realize the corpulent motherfucker doesn’t even know how to properly close a fucking umbrella.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

When it comes to the US Const. there's no "is" vs "was"

Apart from them Amendments, obvs.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

I totally get the idea that the USA is done — certainly the moral authority we think we once had and may have has been damaged, perhaps irreparably. We may have seen America’s apex, but I am an optimist at heart, and I suspect folks are going to be surprised at what eventually happens if Trump get shellacked. Just in my life, America survived the late 60s and segregation which was just a kinder name for apartheid. We survived Nixon — a flat out criminal — and then an awful recession and 18 percent interest rates. We survived the global financial crisis (which we caused) and were an inch away from the banking system shutting down. Somewhere out there is a Reaganesque or FDR-like man or woman who can figure out a message of reunification. Much of the right is sounding so wild-eyed and desperate and frightened and frightening because they sense the death-rattle of their party (the old guard in it at any rate) approaching after letting Trump accede in what amounted to putting all your chips on 45 at the roulette table while the ball creeps closer to double zero. I absolutely get why Trump had support — but is there another Trump? Will Republicans or the country risk it or are the majority of Americans on their guard after taking democracy for granted? And never underestimate a country that can feed, clothe and power itself many times over — not just the US, any nation.

I'd like to think you're right about the country that's been my home for nearly half my 70 years now. It produced remarkable men like my late father in law who was one of that "greatest generation" of Americans (fought in the Pacific) and remarkable women like the one i married. In 2009 I'd have said you were 100% right when Bruce Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This land is your land .." at Obama's inauguration. But now, sadly but realistically, I think the idea of American exceptionalism and America as a "city on a hill" is a dwindling vision. And although it's only a small sample, most of the last class of high school kids i taught before recent retirement had similar doubts. I taught them about the American Century, but they believe that the one they'll live their lives in will be the Chinese century. That said, I do hope your kids can continue on with what Springsteen & Seeger saw.

 

[idahoblues]

I'd like to think you're right about the country that's been my home for nearly half my 70 years now. It produced remarkable men like my late father in law who was one of that "greatest generation" of Americans (fought in the Pacific) and remarkable women like the one i married. In 2009 I'd have said you were 100% right when Bruce Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This land is your land .." at Obama's inauguration. But now, sadly but realistically, I think the idea of American exceptionalism and America as a "city on a hill" is a dwindling vision. And although it's only a small sample, most of the last class of high school kids i taught before recent retirement had similar doubts. I taught them about the American Century, but they believe that the one they'll live their lives in will be the Chinese century. That said, I do hope your kids can continue on with what Springsteen & Seeger saw.

I still have more faith in this country than any other, sure things get a little western at times but that makes it more fun!

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I'd like to think you're right about the country that's been my home for nearly half my 70 years now. It produced remarkable men like my late father in law who was one of that "greatest generation" of Americans (fought in the Pacific) and remarkable women like the one i married. In 2009 I'd have said you were 100% right when Bruce Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This land is your land .." at Obama's inauguration. But now, sadly but realistically, I think the idea of American exceptionalism and America as a "city on a hill" is a dwindling vision. And although it's only a small sample, most of the last class of high school kids i taught before recent retirement had similar doubts. I taught them about the American Century, but they believe that the one they'll live their lives in will be the Chinese century. That said, I do hope your kids can continue on with what Springsteen & Seeger saw.

And they may be right. But my wife — an Ashkenazi Jew from suburban Philadelphia — was a Japanese major in the late 80s in college with me, largely due to the fact that her PhD-in-mechanical-engineering-holding father was absolutely convinced the Japanese were going to rule the earth for the foreseeable future. So I’ve been down that road a little. And let me tell you — a nation built on a banking system where banks refuse to recognize bad loans when they go bad is built on a foundation of wet sand. That’s China now, and was Japan (it’s STILL Japan). But China can — as I noted — clothe, feed and power itself — and fund itself — whereas Japan was not as well-equipped. And I sure remember the “duck and cover” drills of the 70s in grammar school, which the principal pretended was necessary due to earthquakes In NorCal, but which we knew were a vestige of worries of nuclear war with the USSR.

But gainsaying the young often is a loser’s game, impressionable as they are. So their perspective matters.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Apart from them Amendments, obvs.

That's all built in.

 

[Silva_Spell]

I totally get the idea that the USA is done — certainly the moral authority we think we once had and may have has been damaged, perhaps irreparably. We may have seen America’s apex, but I am an optimist at heart, and I suspect folks are going to be surprised at what eventually happens if Trump get shellacked. Just in my life, America survived the late 60s and segregation which was just a kinder name for apartheid. We survived Nixon — a flat out criminal — and then an awful recession and 18 percent interest rates. We survived the global financial crisis (which we caused) and were an inch away from the banking system shutting down. Somewhere out there is a Reaganesque or FDR-like man or woman who can figure out a message of reunification. Much of the right is sounding so wild-eyed and desperate and frightened and frightening because they sense the death-rattle of their party (the old guard in it at any rate) approaching after letting Trump accede in what amounted to putting all your chips on 45 at the roulette table while the ball creeps closer to double zero. I absolutely get why Trump had support — but is there another Trump? Will Republicans or the country risk it or are the majority of Americans on their guard after taking democracy for granted? And never underestimate a country that can feed, clothe and power itself many times over — not just the US, any nation.

I think in one central way the Republican Party can be better off for having had Trump.
Prior to Trump there was no hope for a non-(chicken)hawk candidate. Now tho someone like Rand Paul could have a real shot

 

[SWP's back]

One has to laugh.

 

[SWP's back]

Any anti-Biden/pro-Gop posters prepared to defend this type of voter suppression?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Holy shit. Wonder if Biden has to quarantine now.

 

[SWP's back]

 

[Vic]

What's wrong with the system of picking Scotus Judges? The lifetime appointments is purposefully done so as to reduce the ability of the other 2 arms of government to influence them.

You may be right that the Country is losing its sanity, but that has little to do with the constitution.

People live longer. Two of the first judges on the supreme court were dead within a year.

 

[Vic]

I'd like to think you're right about the country that's been my home for nearly half my 70 years now. It produced remarkable men like my late father in law who was one of that "greatest generation" of Americans (fought in the Pacific) and remarkable women like the one i married. In 2009 I'd have said you were 100% right when Bruce Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This land is your land .." at Obama's inauguration. But now, sadly but realistically, I think the idea of American exceptionalism and America as a "city on a hill" is a dwindling vision. And although it's only a small sample, most of the last class of high school kids i taught before recent retirement had similar doubts. I taught them about the American Century, but they believe that the one they'll live their lives in will be the Chinese century. That said, I do hope your kids can continue on with what Springsteen & Seeger saw.

It was a dwindling vision in the 1930s.

"In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?"

 

[Vic]

It's still the richest, most powerful country, and it's still not even close.

The USSR collapsed less than 50 years ago, and the fact the moon landings were so long ago is just further proof of how great the US Constitution is.

When it comes to the US Const. there's no "is" vs "was"

Pity about the native Americans.

 

[Vic]

And they may be right. But my wife — an Ashkenazi Jew from suburban Philadelphia — was a Japanese major in the late 80s in college with me, largely due to the fact that her PhD-in-mechanical-engineering-holding father was absolutely convinced the Japanese were going to rule the earth for the foreseeable future. So I’ve been down that road a little. And let me tell you — a nation built on a banking system where banks refuse to recognize bad loans when they go bad is built on a foundation of wet sand. That’s China now, and was Japan (it’s STILL Japan). But China can — as I noted — clothe, feed and power itself — and fund itself — whereas Japan was not as well-equipped. And I sure remember the “duck and cover” drills of the 70s in grammar school, which the principal pretended was necessary due to earthquakes In NorCal, but which we knew were a vestige of worries of nuclear war with the USSR.

But gainsaying the young often is a loser’s game, impressionable as they are. So their perspective matters.