'Owning' the Lib's is clearly higher up the priorities list than protecting affordable health care for some people.
Is it more subtle than 70m people in America are stupid? Ultimately not much, and that's the sad truth.
Why do you think it's the uneducated that make up Trump's biggest demographic? These people are very literally voting to make their lives worse. To increase their taxes while millionaires pay less, to get rid of affordable healthcare even though it's got huge approval ratings, to strip away workers rights and minimum wages.
How can you explain to me why a guy working minimum wage, struggling to get by, in terrible health because he can't afford insurance is voting for the people who keep his wages down, refuse him healthcare and increase his taxes without any social benefits to show for it?
The republicans have gutted the education system, invested billions in manipulating people based on targetted ads, lied constantly, jumped in bed with the religious right wing and played off people's fears.
Tend to agree with most of what is said here. Actual discussion into why people vote for Trump...not just the usual “cos they’re racist xenophobes”
Well. Fucking. Said.There's an ungodly amount of bullshit in there though isn't there?
"The Obama recovery was the most cronyist corrupt recovery ever" - This is literal nonsense. What is "the Obama recovery"? It sounds like he's talking about the 2008 Emergency Economic Stabilisation Act, passed by George Bush.
Then he completely invents a pretend civil war in Portland and delivers the truly brilliant statement - You don't want civil war. No fucking shit.
The icing on the cake is when he says "You've probably lost your factory job, you probably can't afford healthcare, you've got 1 son who's addicted to opioids, you've got one who's not the same since he got back from a stupid war and then the people who sent him to that war are insulting you.
Oh really? The liberals sent your son to war? Of course, how could I forget that pair of famous lefty democrats George Bush and Dick Cheney.
And was it the democrats who are trying to takeaway affordable healthcare? No.
And is it the Democrats who refuse to treat addiction as a health issue and instead demand more money goes to fighting border wars and increasing criminal punishments? No. And is it the Democrats who receive 75% of Big Pharma money in government? No.
And why are you voting for Donald Trump to bring back your factory job when he failed to create a single job in the coal industry in 4 years after campaigning on it?
Who is campaigning for higher taxes for the 1% to create social aid for the unemployed factory worker who has to get a new job? The Democrats. Who raised taxes for the middle class earning $75k? Donald Trump.
This perfectly sums up the stupidity of the "both sides" argument. You've got a guy lecturing for 10 minutes about all how people vote Republican because of all these problems in America and then never actually making the connection they're all created and made worse by the Republicans FFS.
You don’t think 70/330ths of a population could be stupid?Admittedly I don’t know who the two guys are, or what their background is, but purely on what I saw, I actually thought they made it clear that they thought Trump is a **** and thought the election should not have been as close as it was.
I didn’t see it as them apologising for him at all. However I didn’t bother fact checking nor did I see the need to.
As I said in another recent post, whether the perceptions are fact or not, I encountered similar arguments against the Dems and Clinton in particular a few years ago.
I would have thought purely on Trump’s record that the election should have been a foregone conclusion. I’d even argue that in the US’s electoral system that it will not end up nearly as close as the GOP will pretend.
But the fact that the Dems didn’t take the senate as well suggests to me that there is something a little more subtle going on than 70m people in America are stupid.
Change "or is it" to "and" and you could well be onto something.Is the third answer “because they’re fucking idiots” or is it “because they have the morals of an alley dog”?
I’d like to hear what our American posters think or at least anyone residing there.You don’t think 70/330ths of a population could be stupid?
Have you ever seen an IQ bell curve?
>> Is it more subtle than 70m people in America are stupid?Is it more subtle than 70m people in America are stupid? Ultimately not much, and that's the sad truth.
Why do you think it's the uneducated that make up Trump's biggest demographic? These people are very literally voting to make their lives worse. To increase their taxes while millionaires pay less, to get rid of affordable healthcare even though it's got huge approval ratings, to strip away workers rights and minimum wages.
How can you explain to me why a guy working minimum wage, struggling to get by, in terrible health because he can't afford insurance is voting for the people who keep his wages down, refuse him healthcare and increase his taxes without any social benefits to show for it?
The republicans have gutted the education system, invested billions in manipulating people based on targetted ads, lied constantly, jumped in bed with the religious right wing and played off people's fears.
Paying them with WHAT?Or you are paying him , in fact are you paying them all for loyalty
Erm, money or he might be sharing his smarties haPaying them with WHAT?
As I've said before, a good amount of it is Republicans will always vote for Republicans, just as Catholics will be Catholics and City fans will always be City fans. It's a matter of party loyalty, not necessarily thickness. Or its oppositional -- more fear of change or rather slippage away from old, traditional ways as brought about by the other side. Neither of those are necessarily grounded in stupidity, though both might be grounded in comfort and fear of losing that comfort.I’d like to hear what our American posters think or at least anyone residing there.
But it is a sad indictment of America if a little less than half the electorate are thick.
Listen I’m not ruling it out. I’d just hope it’s not true despite us all joking about it on this side of the Atlantic.
I couldn’t live there. I wouldn’t even visit again if Trump was still in charge. That’s how I feel about him and what was happening to America.
Ive always considered much of America as gullible, even those I would consider highly educated, but brandishing half the adult population in a place as big and diverse as America as thick?
If true, it’s very disheartening.
And lest we think we are far superior and couldn’t get duped like that.
Well let’s keep a close eye on events closer to home in the coming year.
I thing he might be bankrupt after all the cases against him are settled.Erm, money or he might be sharing his smarties ha
>> Is it more subtle than 70m people in America are stupid?
Yes, very much more so.
There are some extremely bright people voting for Trump.
There are many factors behind populist movements world-wide. Probably the factors in the USA are similar/identical to those in many other countries.
The primary factor - I think - is an overwhelming sense that the majority race/ethnicity/religious belief is being undermined by "others" - different skin color, tribe, and/or religious belief. The perception that you personally - in the majority - are being put to back of the line by government policies favoring the "others."
This sentiment is motivated by personal upbringing - i.e., your parents believed this, and in your formative years you were exposed primarily/exclusively to this viewpoint - and over the years your well-being has not seemed to improve; moreover, the "others" are taking your jobs, living off welfare, committing crimes and so on... or so it seems to you.
In short, a large segment of the Trump vote have been living among like-thinkers all their lives - it's natural to believe what your peers believe regardless of intelligence.
===
Another factor is single-issue voters.
Anti-abortion - no matter what - is a Trump vote.
Pro gun rights - no matter what - is a Trump vote.
===
Then, there's gerrymandering - this has the effect of concentrating each party's vote into completely separate districts. Which means that successful politicians will by-in-large adopt more extreme viewpoints than would occur if a simple popular vote election were in place. To win a partisan gerrymandered district you simply need to appeal strongly to the majority sentiment in your district - compromise positions will result in failure to win election in most cases.
In the USA - congressman will be far more partisan.
===
Another factor is the advent of extremely populist journalism - the various opinion shows on Fox for example (but not at all the actual news broadcasts on Fox which are actually pretty good).
This, and the rise of social media, means that a populist-leaning individual has ready access to "news" (it's actually not news, it's opinion) - that directly aligns with their current beliefs. There's an echo chamber, reinforcing populist viewpoints.
===
Finally, a populist figure comes into power given all of the above. First up - discredit the free press - "fake news."
The populist media outlets echo and reinforce the "fake news" pronouncements. This means that nearly everyone who was leaning towards populist viewpoints - is locked in. It's virtually impossible to change their minds - facts per se do not matter - because the facts - in their opinion - are those reported by their favorite media outlets - everything else is simply not true ("fake news").
===
It's a very short step from the scenario above - to a total collapse of democracy.
Should Trump have been elected to a 2nd term in office - America might well have transformed from a Democracy - to an Autocracy.
And it's not at all about "stupid people."
Eloquently put. Doesn’t hide the fact that if you voted for that utter buffoon, then you are not thinking straight.>> Is it more subtle than 70m people in America are stupid?
Yes, very much more so.
There are some extremely bright people voting for Trump.
There are many factors behind populist movements world-wide. Probably the factors in the USA are similar/identical to those in many other countries.
The primary factor - I think - is an overwhelming sense that the majority race/ethnicity/religious belief is being undermined by "others" - different skin color, tribe, and/or religious belief. The perception that you personally - in the majority - are being put to back of the line by government policies favoring the "others."
This sentiment is motivated by personal upbringing - i.e., your parents believed this, and in your formative years you were exposed primarily/exclusively to this viewpoint - and over the years your well-being has not seemed to improve; moreover, the "others" are taking your jobs, living off welfare, committing crimes and so on... or so it seems to you.
In short, a large segment of the Trump vote have been living among like-thinkers all their lives - it's natural to believe what your peers believe regardless of intelligence.
===
Another factor is single-issue voters.
Anti-abortion - no matter what - is a Trump vote.
Pro gun rights - no matter what - is a Trump vote.
===
Then, there's gerrymandering - this has the effect of concentrating each party's vote into completely separate districts. Which means that successful politicians will by-in-large adopt more extreme viewpoints than would occur if a simple popular vote election were in place. To win a partisan gerrymandered district you simply need to appeal strongly to the majority sentiment in your district - compromise positions will result in failure to win election in most cases.
In the USA - congressman will be far more partisan.
===
Another factor is the advent of extremely populist journalism - the various opinion shows on Fox for example (but not at all the actual news broadcasts on Fox which are actually pretty good).
This, and the rise of social media, means that a populist-leaning individual has ready access to "news" (it's actually not news, it's opinion) - that directly aligns with their current beliefs. There's an echo chamber, reinforcing populist viewpoints.
===
Finally, a populist figure comes into power given all of the above. First up - discredit the free press - "fake news."
The populist media outlets echo and reinforce the "fake news" pronouncements. This means that nearly everyone who was leaning towards populist viewpoints - is locked in. It's virtually impossible to change their minds - facts per se do not matter - because the facts - in their opinion - are those reported by their favorite media outlets - everything else is simply not true ("fake news").
===
It's a very short step from the scenario above - to a total collapse of democracy.
Should Trump have been elected to a 2nd term in office - America might well have transformed from a Democracy - to an Autocracy.
And it's not at all about "stupid people."
===
The departure from a populist viewpoint attributed to college education - is not, I think, due to intelligence.
Rather, if you, as an impoverished populist, happen to break out and are lucky enough to attend college - you'll for the first time in your life be exposed to a majority viewpoint different than your own. The echo-chamber is broken. Sometimes (often?) - you'll change your opinion.
Lest someone claim - bingo! - as I said, intelligent individuals end up in college and stupid people do not - I disagree. If you are born into poverty - it's extremely difficult to break out.
Moreover, even if you do break out - there's religious and single/issue politics to consider.
And yet, the essence of being human is that we think and believe what our peers think and believe - regardless of intelligence - by-in-large.The problem with this is that you seem to think someone who will vote for someone who will tangibly make them poorer, less healthy and die younger in the hopes of overturning something that's been legal for 50 years is not a fucking moron.
And being racist or however you want to dress up "economic anxiety about brown people" is fucking stupid.
And being a 40-50 year old adult who votes for someone because your parents did and you never managed to think for yourself is fucking stupid.
And yet, the essence of being human is that we think and believe what our peers think and believe - regardless of intelligence - by-in-large.
Err.....?