2022 World Cup Discussion

Crooked_rain said:
It’s interesting, a lot of people are picking Argentina or Brazil

I have quite a few friends in both of those countries and most of them feel they can’t compete with European teams these days. The Brazilians I know, while hopeful, feel they will probably lose if they come up against one of the top European teams like England.

Then a lot of English folks think we’ll be dumped out if we come up against someone like Brazil.

So it just shows how our perspectives differ in relation to where we are.
Click to expand...

South American World Cup qualifying is tricky. You play in all sorts of climates and at altitude and in hostile environments. Both came through unbeaten. Perhaps the level across South America has fallen slightly, with Chile and Uruguay not quite the teams of old, but that's still impressive. They also both met in the final of the Copa America. I see them as strong contenders considering the heat in Qatar which will be more of an issue for the European teams. It will still be touching 30 or high 20s for the majority of the games.

It's hard to gauge exactly where the European teams are. The Nations League seems to be a blend of experimentation and those looking to test their best teams. Hungary did well in England's group off the back of finishing 4th in our WC qualifying group for example. Italy won the group but didn't make the WC after winning the Euro's! There are question marks over most teams which is why I think Argentina or Brazil will win it.
 
Crooked_rain said:
I have a feeling this years winner might be a bit of wild card

Anyway I do think Argentina can be right up there. I just find it interesting how we big them up but the South Americans I know are adamant their teams these days can’t live with good European sides. But maybe it’s just because apart from Argentina in 2014, no South American team has had a chance of winning it since 2002, 20 years ago! The last World Cup had all semi finalist hailing from Europe. So you can see why some might feel that way.

So it just goes to show me that the England fans being negative about England chances probably isn’t a true indicator of England’s actual chances because fans of other countries pretty much feel the same way about their team.
Click to expand...

Generally if the tournament is in Europe a European team wins it and if it's anywhere else in the World a South American team wins it. The exceptions are in 1958 (Sweden) when Brazil beat the hosts and Germany in 2014 (Brazil) when they beat Argentina in the final, having battered Brazil in the semi's. Spain won the South African world cup and I think Uruguay made it to the semi's but it was all European otherwise.

On that basis, the South American's have a better chance especially as they've got strong teams with a good record. You'd still expect some European teams to make the latter stages and the predictor I've done as part of a work sweepstake has Brazil v Argentina in the semi finals... we'll see! The Netherlands and Germany always tend to go quite far in WC's.

England will have to win a shootout at some point and Toney should have gone just for that over someone like Gallagher who will realistically never get on the pitch. At what point of a game is he the man you'd turn to when you have Maddison/Grealish etc.
 
supercity88 said:
Generally if the tournament is in Europe a European team wins it and if it's anywhere else in the World a South American team wins it. The exceptions are in 1958 (Sweden) when Brazil beat the hosts and Germany in 2014 (Brazil) when they beat Argentina in the final, having battered Brazil in the semi's. Spain won the South African world cup and I think Uruguay made it to the semi's but it was all European otherwise.

On that basis, the South American's have a better chance especially as they've got strong teams with a good record. You'd still expect some European teams to make the latter stages and the predictor I've done as part of a work sweepstake has Brazil v Argentina in the semi finals... we'll see! The Netherlands and Germany always tend to go quite far in WC's.

England will have to win a shootout at some point and Toney should have gone just for that over someone like Gallagher who will realistically never get on the pitch. At what point of a game is he the man you'd turn to when you have Maddison/Grealish etc.
Click to expand...

I’ve got either Brazil or Argentina reaching the final. So I’m certainly not writing them off, they have a great chance, I was just pointing out my friends in those countries serious doubt, like a lot of England fans do about England.

I guess once you get to the final, it’s anyones game, anything can happen at that point. We are a better side than Chelsea but not on the night we played them in the CL final. That’s football

So I can never predict who I think will win the whole thing, but I do feel we’ll see either Brazil or Argentina go as far as the final

But part of me still thinks we’ll get an unexpected winner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat
Crooked_rain said:
I’ve got either Brazil or Argentina reaching the final. So I’m certainly not writing them off, they have a great chance, I was just pointing out my friends in those countries serious doubt, like a lot of England fans do about England.

I guess once you get to the final, it’s anyones game, anything can happen at that point. We are a better side than Chelsea but not on the night we played them in the CL final. That’s football

So I can never predict who I think will win the whole thing, but I do feel we’ll see either Brazil or Argentina go as far as the final

But part of me still thinks we’ll get an unexpected winner.
Click to expand...
I feel the same. It'll add to strangeness of this tournament.

I've noticed the lack of hype compared to previous competitions.

FIFA may well be regretting it as the hosts have put more rules in stifling certain sponsorship coverage.
 
Crooked_rain said:
I have a feeling this years winner might be a bit of wild card

Anyway I do think Argentina can be right up there. I just find it interesting how we big them up but the South Americans I know are adamant their teams these days can’t live with good European sides. But maybe it’s just because apart from Argentina in 2014, no South American team has had a chance of winning it since 2002, 20 years ago! The last World Cup had all semi finalist hailing from Europe. So you can see why some might feel that way.

So it just goes to show me that the England fans being negative about England chances probably isn’t a true indicator of England’s actual chances because fans of other countries pretty much feel the same way about their team.
Click to expand...
Indeed the US will win it. You heard it first on bluemoon.
 
aguero93:20 said:
If you can find each way on top 4 it's probably not a bad bet, I'm sure we nearly all remember South Korea in 02.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure apart from being hosts, there is an awful lot in common. South Korea were a semi decent team, with players drawn from leagues in Europe and around the world. All Qatar’s squad play in their national league. They wouldn’t be within a million miles of the finals if they weren’t hosts. You can have Saudi Arabia at 500 points bigger if you’re looking for a hopeless each way bet.
 
Stephen230 said:
I’m not sure apart from being hosts, there is an awful lot in common. South Korea were a semi decent team, with players drawn from leagues in Europe and around the world. All Qatar’s squad play in their national league. They wouldn’t be within a million miles of the finals if they weren’t hosts. You can have Saudi Arabia at 500 points bigger if you’re looking for a hopeless each way bet.
Click to expand...
South Korea had a lot of help to get to the semi's. The Italy game stunk to fuck.
 
Crooked_rain said:
I’ve got either Brazil or Argentina reaching the final. So I’m certainly not writing them off, they have a great chance, I was just pointing out my friends in those countries serious doubt, like a lot of England fans do about England.

I guess once you get to the final, it’s anyones game, anything can happen at that point. We are a better side than Chelsea but not on the night we played them in the CL final. That’s football

So I can never predict who I think will win the whole thing, but I do feel we’ll see either Brazil or Argentina go as far as the final

But part of me still thinks we’ll get an unexpected winner.
Click to expand...

France are the team I'm most unsure about. Kante and Pogba are a huge miss for them, but their squad is still very strong. You just never know if you're going to get a harmonious French team that just nail it, or one that falls apart and has some sort of drama. I've written them off based on recent form but you never know. Denmark are very strong and could do well, but they're a team most of the traditional top teams would expect to beat still.

How much the heat plays it's part is yet to be seen. Spain are talented but defensively weak and lacking a striker. The same goes for Germany, but they'll both probably do well. The Dutch have put a good run together recently and have a solid defence and a strong identity that could see them go far. They score a lot of goals despite the lack of obvious quality up front. Belgium are past it now in my opinion.

Jury is out on England still. The biggest issue we have is that Southgate is well aware that we're weak defensively and will naturally look to bolster the defence to stop us conceding. Personally I think that's the wrong way to do things. We're going to concede against good opposition. Face into it and look to outscore the opponent rather than stop them. If we play a more direct game and don't look to pass it out from the back (which we can't do well enough) we'll cause so many issues with the players we have. Having said that he's got us to the latter stages before playing his way, so who am I to comment!
 
England will do well to get to the semis, but they are capable of winning it, also capable of not qualifying for the round of 16. Whatever, I will support them and Wales if they get through and we don’t. But, to be honest, I have not been more apathetic about a World Cup since I knew there was such a thing, even when England didn’t qualify I always loved the build up and the mad moments. But I cannot condone the choice of QATAR and the havoc a winter World Cup has on the domestic game, to deprive fans of top class football at this time of year is disgusting, although it might help some with the cost of living crisis for a few weeks.
 
supercity88 said:
France are the team I'm most unsure about. Kante and Pogba are a huge miss for them, but their squad is still very strong. You just never know if you're going to get a harmonious French team that just nail it, or one that falls apart and has some sort of drama. I've written them off based on recent form but you never know. Denmark are very strong and could do well, but they're a team most of the traditional top teams would expect to beat still.

How much the heat plays it's part is yet to be seen. Spain are talented but defensively weak and lacking a striker. The same goes for Germany, but they'll both probably do well. The Dutch have put a good run together recently and have a solid defence and a strong identity that could see them go far. They score a lot of goals despite the lack of obvious quality up front. Belgium are past it now in my opinion.

Jury is out on England still. The biggest issue we have is that Southgate is well aware that we're weak defensively and will naturally look to bolster the defence to stop us conceding. Personally I think that's the wrong way to do things. We're going to concede against good opposition. Face into it and look to outscore the opponent rather than stop them. If we play a more direct game and don't look to pass it out from the back (which we can't do well enough) we'll cause so many issues with the players we have. Having said that he's got us to the latter stages before playing his way, so who am I to comment!
Click to expand...
It's the usual England dilemma - weak at the back and bolster it by reducing attacking options. But if we have St. Hendo there, covering Maguire's arse, then 'Arry'll knock in every pen we get.
 
supercity88 said:
France are the team I'm most unsure about. Kante and Pogba are a huge miss for them, but their squad is still very strong. You just never know if you're going to get a harmonious French team that just nail it, or one that falls apart and has some sort of drama. I've written them off based on recent form but you never know. Denmark are very strong and could do well, but they're a team most of the traditional top teams would expect to beat still.

How much the heat plays it's part is yet to be seen. Spain are talented but defensively weak and lacking a striker. The same goes for Germany, but they'll both probably do well. The Dutch have put a good run together recently and have a solid defence and a strong identity that could see them go far. They score a lot of goals despite the lack of obvious quality up front. Belgium are past it now in my opinion.

Jury is out on England still. The biggest issue we have is that Southgate is well aware that we're weak defensively and will naturally look to bolster the defence to stop us conceding. Personally I think that's the wrong way to do things. We're going to concede against good opposition. Face into it and look to outscore the opponent rather than stop them. If we play a more direct game and don't look to pass it out from the back (which we can't do well enough) we'll cause so many issues with the players we have. Having said that he's got us to the latter stages before playing his way, so who am I to comment!
Click to expand...

Yeah

The reality is we have done well in the past two tournaments. And while I do find Southgate frustrating at times, his record in tournaments has been good, although yet to win anything.

And the people who are most against Southgate as manager always say that we got to late stages in the tournaments in-spite of Southgate and not because of him, so I guess if that’s true, then they shouldn’t be worried too much about this tournament either, if he has little to do with how far we got previously.

I do think he has made mistakes with game management when it most mattered, the Croatia and Italy games. The Croatia game might be lack of experience. You would hope by the Italy game he might have learned more, But then when you’re in the second half and 1-0 up in a final, I think you’re almost damned if you do and damned if you don’t. He got panned for being negative and sitting back on a lead, But imagine he instructed the team to take it to Italy and we got done anyway then he would’ve been panned for not protecting the lead. But the best managers get paid to take those calculated risks and manage the game and he didn’t seem to know how to. I still think we should’ve taken it to an ageing Italy defence. But I guess I’m not the one who’s making the decisions whether to stick or twist when you’re 40 minutes away from winning a major tournament.

If we are in a big game this time and in a lead, I truly hope he has learned his lessons from those two games, because I can almost forgive him for the decisions or lack of decisions he made in those games, given the circumstances at the time, but the next time there will be no excuses because now he’s been there before.

Looking at our squad and the other squads, I see no reason why we can’t compete with anyone. I do think our defence is a weak point, but no country in it is exactly old school AC Milan in defence either.

I don’t see any squad that stands out above the rest. England’s is up there with anyone else’s, overall.
 
FhjJIYFXwAQoTSU

Maguire looks like he's won a Jim l fix it completion to go to Qatar and Coady looks like he just put 10K on Everton to be relegated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top