2025 Grand National (5th April)

[Kippax Street 1880]

Would they run without the whip? If so, why have the whip in the first place?

Some don't need the encouragement and the rider only needs to use hands and heels, depends on the horse, sometimes the whip is needed to keep the horse straight if it's hanging towards other horses or to take it to the rail in a finish. Its not just a run faster you **** stick lol

 

[mexico1970]

run faster you **** stick

You need to trademark that, before someone starts making the bastards :)

 

[Slipper One]

Oh dear.

I don't know about silly, but you are obviously uneducated when it comes to your comments on horse racing.

 

[Slipper One]

Got to say that anyone who genuinely loved their Horse they wouldn't dream of putting that Horse through the mincer that is the Grand National would they mate?

Maybe love has a different meaning in some parts of society?

You could also argue that the horses wouldn't be there at all if it wasn't for racing.

I'm not quite sure where you get the 'mincer' reference from, especially for the race in more recent times. Sure, in the past it's been an grueling race with tougher, more compact fences, especially on very soft ground, but not today.

The race today carries no more risk than any other jumps race.

Although owners make the decision to buy and race a horse, the vast majority have a genuine love for the horse and you would be completely inaccurate to take that view. Again, it's down to being uneducated.
Society seems to want to sanitize every aspect of our life, and owning a horse comes with certain negative possibilities and responsibilities and that have to be accepted and contradict that sanitized approach.

Is there a risk racing a horse, of course there is, there's a risk even owning a horse, but that doesn't mean there is no love for it.

 

[Slipper One]

Would they run without the whip? If so, why have the whip in the first place?

You're not understanding why a jockey has a whip.

Then when you understand that, learn a little about what the whip is.

The whip is foam-padded and energy absorbing, comprising a composite spine with a polymer surround, encased in thick foam padding.

 

[Slipper One]

And yet horses still DIE...strange that?

As with many comments on here, comments backed with a total lack of education.

Horses die daily, as do dogs, cats and budgerigars, so should we not breed and own them as well?

They die in the paddocks, in training, in retirement........it's life.

I have a friend who has her retired racehorse and it couldn't have any better care than it does now. During its racing career the horse only ran on the flat, but in its retirement it competes in showjumping and eventing and simply loves jumping.
It's possible that the horse could succumb to a life threatening injury while competing, but you couldn't question the love the owner has for the horse.

Should the horse be simply left in its stable or paddock all day until it dies of natural causes..........because I can tell you that once the horse gets loaded up in the lorry, he knows exactly what's coming and can't wait to get there.

All this is done because the horse loves it. There's no worthwhile prizemoney, just monthly expenses for board, farrier, vets, travel etc.

 

[mexico1970]

You could also argue that the horses wouldn't be there at all if it wasn't for racing.

I'm not quite sure where you get the 'mincer' reference from, especially for the race in more recent times. Sure, in the past it's been an grueling race with tougher, more compact fences, especially on very soft ground, but not today.

The race today carries no more risk than any other jumps race.

Although owners make the decision to buy and race a horse, the vast majority have a genuine love for the horse and you would be completely inaccurate to take that view. Again, it's down to being uneducated.
Society seems to want to sanitize every aspect of our life, and owning a horse comes with certain negative possibilities and responsibilities and that have to be accepted and contradict that sanitized approach.

Is there a risk racing a horse, of course there is, there's a risk even owning a horse, but that doesn't mean there is no love for it.

No, I actually know what I wrote and stand by it, if you loved your Horse you wouldn't put it in the grand national.

The "Horses wouldn't be there" comment is a bit shit isn't it? I get it you like Horse racing but FFS accept the criticism of it on the chin.

 

[Slipper One]

No, I actually know what I wrote and stand by it, if you loved your Horse you wouldn't put it in the grand national.

The "Horses wouldn't be there" comment is a bit shit isn't it? I get it you like Horse racing but FFS accept the criticism of it on the chin.

I have absolutely no problem accepting your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Is that what your issue is?

Somebody mentioned mine detecting dogs, police dogs etc, all have to put their lives in danger. Do you think for one moment that they are not loved by their handlers?

Your argument is too sanitized and simplistic, indicative of todays society.

 

[mexico1970]

I have absolutely no problem accepting your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Is that what your issue is?

Somebody mentioned mine detecting dogs, police dogs etc, all have to put their lives in danger. Do you think for one moment that they are not loved by their handlers?

Your argument is too sanitized and simplistic, indicative of todays society.

Mine detecting Dogs :)

Nothing sanitised about not wanting to see animals hurt for sport mate.

 

[Blue and true]

You're not understanding why a jockey has a whip.

Then when you understand that, learn a little about what the whip is.

The whip is foam-padded and energy absorbing, comprising a composite spine with a polymer surround, encased in thick foam padding.

So educate me, why does a jockey use a whip? Better yet, tell me of a whip being used in any other context where it's not forcing somebody/thing to do something it didn't want to do?

 

[Blue and true]

I have absolutely no problem accepting your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Is that what your issue is?

Somebody mentioned mine detecting dogs, police dogs etc, all have to put their lives in danger. Do you think for one moment that they are not loved by their handlers?

Your argument is too sanitized and simplistic, indicative of todays society.

Do you not see the difference between animals being used for a noble, vital service, and an animal being flogged as a commodity?

 

[Slipper One]

Do you not see the difference between animals being used for a noble, vital service, and an animal being flogged as a commodity?

My point was referring to animals put in certain positions, yet still being loved by their handlers.

I think you're grossly exaggerating the point when you say "flogged as a commodity".

Horses are not flogged, the whip is used for a variety of reasons and flogging isn't one of them.

 

[Slipper One]

Mine detecting Dogs :)

Nothing sanitised about not wanting to see animals hurt for sport mate.

Would your answer be to get rid of the horses?

Horses are not used for ploughing fields and plodding the streets delivering coal these days. The need for horses is very limited if they are not used in many forms of sport, all have their element of risk.

 

[Slipper One]

So educate me, why does a jockey use a whip? Better yet, tell me of a whip being used in any other context where it's not forcing somebody/thing to do something it didn't want to do?

It's used for many reasons Blue and true, concentration, encouragement, correction and may be in the form of a slap or a flick on the shoulder.

It's hardly 'forcing' a horse to do something.........have you ever tried?

I think you're focusing on the visual aspect, rather than the reality. You should take a look at a modern 'whip' and then consider the circumstances that it's used on a 1200lb horse.

If you watched the start of the Grand National, I don't think one horse looked reluctant or needed a flogging to get it to start. Very much the opposite.

They know what's coming and want to get on with it.

As with my friends ex race horse, he goes from plodding around in the paddock to an excitable horse as soon as he realizes that he's off jumping. He's not whipped or coerced to take part.

 

[mexico1970]

Would your answer be to get rid of the horses?

Not all Horses are used to be thrown over dangerous obstacles, in fact only a very small percentage of Horses do that.

Here's a weird thought, many people have Horses because they actually like them and want to look after them.

 

[Blue and true]

My point was referring to animals put in certain positions, yet still being loved by their handlers.

I think you're grossly exaggerating the point when you say "flogged as a commodity".

Horses are not flogged, the whip is used for a variety of reasons and flogging isn't one of them.

I disagree regards the whip; realistically, if the horses were happy to race several times a week they wouldn't need to be "encouraged". There's no way of knowing if it's causing the animal pain or distress.

And they are a commodity; whether you like the term or not, the horses are used to make people money. As the other poster said, if you truly loved an animal you wouldn't put it in a situation where it could be hurt unless you absolutely had to. I see it as a cruel pastime for gamblers; that connotation may seem unfair but that's my take. I won't deign to call it sport because it isn't.

 

[KS55]

Yeah a lot of racing fans bemoan the recent changes to make the race safer and it has changed it from the unique test it used to be but when you actually go and watch the old ones it's pretty indefensible what it used to be like. Personally I think the changes are necessary, a GN like the one you mentioned in the current era in 4K HD could bring about the end of jumps racing in this country, its getting a much higher of calibre of horse entered now aswell. The field this year is rammed with real quality animals.

We don't need to put the lives of the participants both equine and human at a massive risk to still have a good spectacle, those days are in the past. If the die hards want to watch something mental they can watch the Velka Pardubicka from the Czech Republic a few week later which is still fucking crazy as ever

I agree with your sentiment but not all the changes are good.
The modifications to the landing sites are very welcome, it was an area of unnecessary carnage. In contrast, the fences are now so poor that many horses can just run through them. Māori Venture won the race without jumping more than the odd fence.
The fences at Cheltenham are much stiffer. I used to go to Wetherby quite a lot and their fences are stiffer than Aintree's. While there are some fatalities at Cheltenham, they are very few. National Hunt racing is a dangerous sport but if you try to eliminate danger you risk removing the testing element. The national needs to be just that, but it isn’t a true test now.
In the days when I studied form and bet often, I was very successful by picking the very best jumpers. Not sure I could do that now.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

I agree with your sentiment but not all the changes are good.
The modifications to the landing sites are very welcome, it was an area of unnecessary carnage. In contrast, the fences are now so poor that many horses can just run through them. Māori Venture won the race without jumping more than the odd fence.
The fences at Cheltenham are much stiffer. I used to go to Wetherby quite a lot and their fences are stiffer than Aintree's. While there are some fatalities at Cheltenham, they are very few. National Hunt racing is a dangerous sport but if you try to eliminate danger you risk removing the testing element. The national needs to be just that, but it isn’t a true test now.
In the days when I studied form and bet often, I was very successful by picking the very best jumpers. Not sure I could do that now.

I don't entirely disagree with your points. There's a case to be made the new safer padded hurdles contributed to the falls of State Man and Constitution Hill at Cheltenham aswell, there didn't seem to be as much give in them. There's also some merit to the idea horses are not respecting the new easier fences as much so taking them at a higher speed aswell, though I do think some of the changes to the national fences in particular were definitely needed, they used to be super imposing and testing.

Was more drawing attention to how the BHA is constantly reviewing and making adjustments to try and make the races safer and reduce fatalities. I'm sure if in a few years when they have a larger sample size of the races over the obstacles and the data aligns with what you suspect they will go back to the drawing board again and see what they can come up with.

I'd like to see them bring in a practice hurdle or small fence for the horses to pop over as they canter to the start like they do in France, seems to make sense to me. I like it when the jockey takes the horse up to the first fence before the race and gives them a good look at it aswell. I notice Townend always does that, maybe it should be made mandatory.

 

[doffer]

I disagree regards the whip; realistically, if the horses were happy to race several times a week they wouldn't need to be "encouraged". There's no way of knowing if it's causing the animal pain or distress.

And they are a commodity; whether you like the term or not, the horses are used to make people money. As the other poster said, if you truly loved an animal you wouldn't put it in a situation where it could be hurt unless you absolutely had to. I see it as a cruel pastime for gamblers; that connotation may seem unfair but that's my take. I won't deign to call it sport because it isn't.

A few years ago, one of the tv pundits (think it might have been Mick Fitz) showed a whip and hit his hand a few times. No mark. So stop talking bollocks.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Here's Vanillier (ran in the last 2 nationals) at home having a whale of a time without a whip or jockey in sight