#25 | Fernandinho - 2020/2021 Performances

[Dax777]

I didn't think he was amazing as some last night. I thought he was as good as anyone else on the pitch mind, but it was one of those games where nobody was really head and shoulders above the rest.

I think there is so much love for Fern, not just because of his immense contribution in the past but because when you see him create the 3rd goal with a driving run from midfield, it just emphasises what is missing from Rodri and Gundogan. They both have their own qualities but it is very difficult to look past the team we were in 17/18 with a CDM who offered pretty much everything.

I keep reading on here how great Gundogan is playing, and how Rodri brings something to the team that other fans aren't savvy enough to appreciate and all I can think is, if all of this is true, why have we regressed so much as a team? I mean, our current defence is no worse (arguably better) than 17/18 and apparently our midfield with Gundogan and Rodri is looking really good. That only leaves the front end, which we can probably all agree is a massive drop-off from 17/18. Are we really saying that we are levels below where we were because we lost Sane (who many on here say was inconsistent and not a big loss) and Aguero is perma-injured? I just don't buy that at all.

I don't think that Gundogan or Rodri are doing much wrong as individuals, they are what they are but there is something about adding those two into the midfield that has ruined the fluidity of our play. I would still rather have an aged Fern in there over either of them, for the overall good of the team.

Well, for what it's worth, we've conceded far fewer goals this season with the apparent shit defensive midfield duo of Gundogan and Rodri than in most season when Dihno was the stalwart.

And we have been poor this year because we've lost Silva ( both his talent from a few years back before aging last year) Aguero has regressed, so has Sterling and Debryune.

In short our 3 best players from the winning season are either gone (Silva) or regresse/injured. Kev and Aguero.


Do you realize we are not in the top 10 in goals scored this season? And we are #2 in goals conceded. And that's after giving up 5 in our first game before Dias arrived.

For all the whine about how poor Rodri and Gundogan are defensively, they seem to somehow have been a part of one of the best defensive run under Pep.

So yeah, they clearly are doing something right.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

Well, for what it's worth, we've conceded far fewer goals this season with the apparent shit defensive midfield duo of Gundogan and Rodri than in most season when Dihno was the stalwart.

And we have been poor this year because we've lost Silva ( both his talent from a few years back before aging last year) Aguero has regressed, so has Sterling and Debryune.

In short our 3 best players from the winning season are either gone (Silva) or regresse/injured. Kev and Aguero.


Do you realize we are not in the top 10 in goals scored this season? And we are #2 in goals conceded. And that's after giving up 5 in our first game before Dias arrived.

For all the whine about how poor Rodri and Gundogan are defensively, they seem to somehow have been a part of one of the best defensive run under Pep.

So yeah, they clearly are doing something right.

Correct, this side concedes less goals. It also plays less exciting football, wins fewer games, wins less points and wins fewer trophies.

In 17/18 we had the best midfield in the Prem and not just by a little bit, by a country fucking mile. It was dynamic, fluid and dominated the shit-scared opposition most weeks.

There is no fear-factor about our midfield anymore, the opposition know the only one who can hurt them is KDB. You mention Silva is a big loss, you’re 100% correct, the loss is exacerbated by replacing him with Gundogan, who even on his best day, is half the player Merlin was on an average day. Gundogan does a job but the opposition are never going to be overly concerned about what he is going to do to them with the ball. Equally, they aren’t going to worry about Rodri doing what Fern did for the 3rd last night.

Gundogan and Rodri are decent enough players but they have negatively impacted the team as a whole (not the only ones). We are levels below the 17/18 side and those two have played a big part in that. That’s not to say we can’t be successful with those two in the middle but we won’t be running amok and taking the piss like we did in 17/18 and to a lesser extent in 18/19.

 

[domalino]

and wins fewer trophies.

Look at Nostradamus over here, already knows what we'll win this season!

 

[OrigamiNinja]

Look at Nostradamus over here, already knows what we'll win this season!

No, I just know what we won/didn’t win last season.

 

[domalino]

No, I just know what we won/didn’t win last season.

But you're talking about *this* side. "This side concedes less goals" Obviously has nothing to do with last season where we conceded loads of goals.

This side is clearly not the side of last season, with no David Silva and the much improved defence, change to 4231 and big tactical shift. This side could still win every competition it's entered.

 

[Dax777]

Correct, this side concedes less goals. It also plays less exciting football, wins fewer games, wins less points and wins fewer trophies.

Yes. But that's because, Kevin, Aguero and Sterling are all playing poorer in addition to losing Silva.

In 17/18 we had the best midfield in the Prem and not just by a little bit, by a country fucking mile. It was dynamic, fluid and dominated the shit-scared opposition most weeks.

Yes, no one disagrees.

There is no fear-factor about our midfield anymore, the opposition know the only one who can hurt them is KDB. You mention Silva is a big loss, you’re 100% correct, the loss is exacerbated by replacing him with Gundogan, who even on his best day, is half the player Merlin was on an average day.

I'd say his as good as last year's Dave. Who wasn't particularly at his best.

Gundogan does a job but the opposition are never going to be overly concerned about what he is going to do to them with the ball. Equally, they aren’t going to worry about Rodri doing what Fern did for the 3rd last night.

What Dihno did to spring Phil was nice but it's nothing I haven't seen before. See Rodri pass to start the move for Mahrez goal against Burnley. Plays like that are not uncommon.

I agree Dihno is more offensive bthan Rodri. But doesn't brake care of the ball as well. So there are pluses and minuses to Dihno.

Gundogan and Rodri are decent enough players but they have negatively impacted the team as a whole (not the only ones).

This is wrong. They are 2 of the more consistent players. If the others were playing at the standard of 2018, we'd be walking the league just like then.

We are levels below the 17/18 side and those two have played a big part in that. That’s not to say we can’t be successful with those two in the middle but we won’t be running amok and taking the piss like we did in 17/18 and to a lesser extent in 18/19.

Again, we are levels below coz we lost a great midfielder and everyone else who was great back then hasn't been. Sterling won us multiple games on his own that had nothing to do with the other great players.. Just him delivering at the death. Aguero had a couple of those too. So did Bernado. Not to mention, Sane's soeed added a factor that made Kev and Dave plays easier and better. Aguero also was at his scoring best. To discount all these key factors and lump it on the DM replacements because you don't like them or because they are different from what you historically fancied, is a bit of pretending the problem lies where it doesn't.

Again, we are scoring less and conceding less. At a minimum, we can concludd from that Rodri is doing some kinda job)

 

[FantasyIreland]

Other than the magnificent signing of Dias and the majestic return of Stones......We are bound to be conceding less now as we have sacrificed much of our attacking flair.
We didnt require two defensive midfielders when Dinho was at his peak,he ensured us with the ability and confidence to play a more cavalier and direct approach,hence the goals flowed.

 

[ws01]

Players don't all go to shit at once and stop performing, especially when they've been so consistent previously. It just does not happen, there's something deeper behind it.

Sure, Rodri and Gundogan aren't completely to blame for the way we've declined. The overall system and Pep's biases are a huge factor, as is his seeming inability to adapt enough to the way the game is currently changing. The drop in quality from Fernandinho to them though is a big problem we've been facing for the last two seasons and have dealt with it poorly. They're good players in the right league and system, but not in the Prem and in Europe playing for us.

That said, a like for like replacement for Dinho doesn't exist. He's a one off. Pep has to adapt and find a solution for it, otherwise I have huge doubts that he's able to turn this decline around.

 

[WallyA]

Other than the magnificent signing of Dias and the majestic return of Stones......We are bound to be conceding less now as we have sacrificed much of our attacking flair.
We didnt require two defensive midfielders when Dinho was at his peak,he ensured us with the ability and confidence to play a more cavalier and direct approach,hence the goals flowed.

We have played 433 the last few seasons with Dinho, Gundogan or even Rodri as the only DM.

Fernandinho is NOT special as to why we switched to 4231, it's because we lost David Silva and Pep is adapting to the loss of David, not to Dinho's regression.

Players don't all go to shit at once and stop performing, especially when they've been so consistent previously. It just does not happen, there's something deeper behind it.

Sure, Rodri and Gundogan aren't completely to blame for the way we've declined. The overall system and Pep's biases are a huge factor, as is his seeming inability to adapt enough to the way the game is currently changing. The drop in quality from Fernandinho to them though is a big problem we've been facing for the last two seasons and have dealt with it poorly. They're good players in the right league and system, but not in the Prem and in Europe playing for us.

That said, a like for like replacement for Dinho doesn't exist. He's a one off. Pep has to adapt and find a solution for it, otherwise I have huge doubts that he's able to turn this decline around.

Many of our players have found it difficult to find form due to COVID and lack of preparation and having this rushed season as a result. So there is your reason, it didn't just happen all of a sudden.

In what way is the game currently changing that Pep hasn't adapted to? This is far too generic a statement.

Sterling, Aguero, KdB, Bernardo Silva all well below their high standards, but no let's just deflect to Gundogan (who was vital in both of our recent title winning seasons) and Rodri.

To both of you, we have won loads of games in phenomenal style without Dinho these past few years, have you forgotten so quickly?

Don't let a 4-1 win to this shitty Arsenal side, wherein we were actually quite mediocre (we were actually better against Southampton) trick you into thinking Dinho was special, especially on just 1 game where we had some terrible goals from an awful keeper.

 

[Sir peace frog]

We have a new system stopping us getting counter attacked our great weakness, pep has rodri as the anchor, forget pivot, and gundogan as the link, both do imo or are doing a great job this season, weve seen great improvements in our defensive side which imo is easier than the creative side, once pep gets that right and he will, we will have a solid expansive side that again imo will dominate at home and abroad, people want instant results, well sadly for the impatient people that doesn't happen in football, i don't think it's a coincidence that pep extending for a little longer than we all expected because he and the higher ups know it will take time .
Also isn't the new no2 renowned for his 4231 systems and that's why he's been brought in, people don't give pep the credit he deserves, the guy knows his stuff and imo will prove it