9/11 Conspiracy?

[zeusbheld]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

I am not in aviation so am not an expert. I just have a few queries on the Pentagon crash. Why is it not possible to have a few questions re this crash and accept the twin towers plane situation and the other hijacking? I am not a conspirator I just have a few questions.

wasn't saying you were a conspiracy theorist. i was saying, why would conspirators use a airliners one place and a missile in the other? seems like a pretty crappy strategy on the attackers' part.

and Robinjo: the NACELLE, not all the parts of the engine, is 9 feet tall on a 757.

 

[mat]

I don't believe in the "America did it" conspiracy theory but I do think that maybe they knew more about it than they have said and may have been prepared to let it happen in order to ensure they had a clear justification for what they wanted to do.

As regards the engines, the first photo seems to have an unusual perspective but the engines on a 757 are not slung as low as the one shown. The 757 is quite a "tall" aircraft plus there is no such thing as a "757 engine". There are compatible engines but the actual choice of engine is made at time of purchase. It's not integral to the airframe.

Pretty much the way i see it, but one thing that puzzled me was that all flights were grounded on the day, with the exception of a certain Bin Ladin family. It's a pretty shitty thing if it had been allowed to happen to make a group of people very rich indeed.....

The twin towers would have been enough, the pentagon overkill perhaps, as well as the alleged plane heading for the white house. Why not come out and say that plane was shot down in the name of national security than produce some all American hero bullshit of the passengers sacrificing themselves.

 

[zeusbheld]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Some say the buildings were wired up with explosive as well too make sure it was "done properly" lol sorry but the amount of explosives needed would of been visible too thousands of people in the buildings.

this one's my favorite. some people find it utterly implausible that an airplane, when crashing, breaks into little bits, or that some parts survive and go flying while some don't, yet have NO problem believing that demolitions technicians can rig a group of massive buildings for demolition--something that generally takes time and a lot of equipment---and NO WOULD WORKING IN AND AROUND THE BUILDINGS WOULD EVEN SEE THEM COMING. really, anyone who'd worked in the area (i worked at Lehman Bros at World Financial Center for a while in the Graphics dept it's right across the street). i worked midnight to 8 am (4 am if business was slow). there were lots of people in the area 24/7/365. yet NOBODY saw ANYONE rigging ANY of these buildings... ALL of which were in use 24/7/365.... hmmmm....

Yet its possible, how do you know how long this may have been planned? Months? Or even years? It would have been easily done.

this is getting silly.

when did they plant the explosives? when they started to build the WTC in 1966?

ffs there were people around ALL the time. people going in and out constantly. everyone who went in and out had to sign in. i can't prove it's not possible that i will sprout pixie wings and fly away any minute, but i don't like your odds if you bet that i will.

you are so certain that a demolition crew can sneak into a building you've never seen, when there are constantly lots of people around. please explain how, because i used to work there and i can't even imagine how the crew would sneak in unless... maybe... it was JACK BAUER.

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Some say the buildings were wired up with explosive as well too make sure it was "done properly" lol sorry but the amount of explosives needed would of been visible too thousands of people in the buildings.

this one's my favorite. some people find it utterly implausible that an airplane, when crashing, breaks into little bits, or that some parts survive and go flying while some don't, yet have NO problem believing that demolitions technicians can rig a group of massive buildings for demolition--something that generally takes time and a lot of equipment---and NO WOULD WORKING IN AND AROUND THE BUILDINGS WOULD EVEN SEE THEM COMING. really, anyone who'd worked in the area (i worked at Lehman Bros at World Financial Center for a while in the Graphics dept it's right across the street). i worked midnight to 8 am (4 am if business was slow). there were lots of people in the area 24/7/365. yet NOBODY saw ANYONE rigging ANY of these buildings... ALL of which were in use 24/7/365.... hmmmm....

Yet its possible, how do you know how long this may have been planned? Months? Or even years? It would have been easily done.

this is getting silly.

when did they plant the explosives? when they started to build the WTC in 1966?

ffs there were people around ALL the time. people going in and out constantly. everyone who went in and out had to sign in. i can't prove it's not possible that i will sprout pixie wings and fly away any minute, but i don't like your odds if you bet that i will.

you are so certain that a demolition crew can sneak into a building you've never seen, when there are constantly lots of people around. please explain how, because i used to work there and i can't even imagine how the crew would sneak in unless... maybe... it was JACK BAUER.

Fucking hell. You've done a lot of things.

I'm simply stating that it could of been possible

 

[zeusbheld]

I don't believe in the "America did it" conspiracy theory but I do think that maybe they knew more about it than they have said and may have been prepared to let it happen in order to ensure they had a clear justification for what they wanted to do.

As regards the engines, the first photo seems to have an unusual perspective but the engines on a 757 are not slung as low as the one shown. The 757 is quite a "tall" aircraft plus there is no such thing as a "757 engine". There are compatible engines but the actual choice of engine is made at time of purchase. It's not integral to the airframe.

Pretty much the way i see it, but one thing that puzzled me was that all flights were grounded on the day, with the exception of a certain Bin Ladin family. It's a pretty shitty thing if it had been allowed to happen to make a group of people very rich indeed.....

The twin towers would have been enough, the pentagon overkill perhaps, as well as the alleged plane heading for the white house. Why not come out and say that plane was shot down in the name of national security than produce some all American hero bullshit of the passengers sacrificing themselves.

the one conspiracy theory that i find plausible--not saying i believe it but it's plausible and unlike most of the rest, doesn't require demolition crews sneaking in and rigging massive buildings under the noses of thousands of people--is that someone knew in advance.

i suspect they did. however, i'd imagine it's like Pearl Harbor. there were rumors, but no one took them seriously. overconfidence. for example, a friend of mine (my GF at the time actually) worked on a video in "windows on the world" in august 2001. one of the production assistants, while they were standing by the window at the top of the wtc, said "i heard a rumor that someone wants to try to fly a plane into this building." upon hearing this, i had visions of them flying a little Cessna into the WTC. not 2 airliners. before it happened, it was incomprehensible.

as for the bin Laden thing: it's a large family and Osama was estranged from his family. they are very rich and do not endorse his beliefs. the family members studying in the US were flown out ASAP as there was widespread fear of a backlash, and if people found out they were related to THAT bin Laden, they'd have probably been lynched. what i'd heard at the time anyway.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

I can't believe people still hang onto this conspiracy bollox. You should be ashamed of yourselves and if any lecturer is supporting this in a uni he should be arrested.

anyone interested in what happens when an aeroplane hits a reinforced wall at high speed look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

Note the F4 wing is structurally many times stronger than a 757.

Also note a 757 has 3 gas turbines.

 

[blumoon]

2000–2001: The military conducts exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets causing mass casualties. One target is the World Trade Center (WTC), another the Pentagon. Yet after 9/11, over and over the White House and security officials say they’re shocked that terrorists hijacked airliners and crashed them into landmark buildings.

 

[sexual chocolate]

Matty

They found Glenn Millers plane in the English Channel, it was discovered a few years ago. they reckon he flew below a formation of bombers who were returning from a failed bombing mission with all their bombs intact. The area his plane was found was an area allocated to bombers to dump unused bombs prior to landing, they reckon his plane got struck by one of these bombs and thats why he disappeared.

Can't help you on the other one though

 

[zeusbheld]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Fucking hell. You've done a lot of things.

sadly, none of them terribly well.

i should've stuck with graphics (PowerPoint slide shows to be precise), stayed in new york and kept making money instead of going to film school, moving to bangkok and writing a book that won't get published and working on crappy movies that don't get into film festivals. that would have been the sensible thing to do.

I'm simply stating that it could of been possible

i'm saying that i knew the area well, and i don't see how. there were people there all the time and i tended to work holidays for the shift premiums (same for nights). there was always a lot of security as terrorist threats against the WTC were commonplace (it had been bombed once before, a truck bomb in the 90s if you recall).

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Conspiracy theories are for crackpots and wierdos. It was terrorism pure and simple. Any other theorising is pointless and, ultimately, extremely offensive to the friends and families of the people killed in these terrorist attacks.

This.

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Fucking hell. You've done a lot of things.

sadly, none of them terribly well.

i should've stuck with graphics (PowerPoint slide shows to be precise), stayed in new york and kept making money instead of going to film school, moving to bangkok and writing a book that won't get published and working on crappy movies that don't get into film festivals. that would have been the sensible thing to do.

I'm simply stating that it could of been possible

i'm saying that i knew the area well, and i don't see how. there were people there all the time and i tended to work holidays for the shift premiums (same for nights). there was always a lot of security as terrorist threats against the WTC were commonplace (it had been bombed once before, a truck bomb in the 90s if you recall).

Yes I do remember the van full of explosives, the security can't have been that good. This is far fetched but how do you know people weren't acting as cleaners, IT technicians etc etc.

Probably not true but just shows how possible it could have been

 

[mackenzie]

Sometimes Governments "cover" things up merely to protect their inadequacies. That doesn't make them guilty of the actual act, it merely encourages the conspiracy theories that start later.

I think that what we saw and understood on that day pretty much stands as the truth over 7 years later.

I can believe that perhaps someone in Intelligence either knew or warned what was going to happen and that someone/others may not have acted as they should. I can also believe that the "truth" about the Pentagon incident MAY have been doctored to make it more palatable for public consumption (eg it wasn't a plane that was highjacked but an actual missile fired at a building that is a fundamental, almost iconic, symbol within the American psyche).

But that would be as far as I would go.

 

[zeusbheld]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Yes I do remember the van full of explosives, the security can't have been that good. This is far fetched but how do you know people weren't acting as cleaners, IT technicians etc etc.

Probably not true but just shows how possible it could have been

because it would have required a lot more people and they'd have actually had to go IN the building, not just drive into the parking garage.

to go into the WTC, except for the restaurant and viewing areas, you had to have an appointment. then the people at the desk would call up to the person you were supposed to meet. when the person acknowledged you were supposed to be there, you would then show your drivers' license and get a temporary badge.

only way i can see it is if they somehow all got jobs there, so that they'd have permanent employee badges (i was a temp when i worked in the area, even though i worked at Lehman for quite a while). then they'd have to figure out how to get a lot of very substantial equipment in. they were very large buildings, it would have taken a LOT of demolition equipment.

like i said, i'm not saying it's impossible, just that i can't see how it is at all likely, and i can't see how it's supposed to be more likely than someone flying an airliner into the building after which it collapses.

the truck bomb in the 90s--there were lots of witnesses. they caught the guys who planned that one quite quick. why, after all these years, wouldn't someone who saw some of the suspicious activity and thought nothing of it at the time, come forth and support the demolition theory?

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Yes I do remember the van full of explosives, the security can't have been that good. This is far fetched but how do you know people weren't acting as cleaners, IT technicians etc etc.

Probably not true but just shows how possible it could have been

because it would have required a lot more people and they'd have actually had to go IN the building, not just drive into the parking garage.

to go into the WTC, except for the restaurant and viewing areas, you had to have an appointment. then the people at the desk would call up to the person you were supposed to meet. when the person acknowledged you were supposed to be there, you would then show your drivers' license and get a temporary badge.

only way i can see it is if they somehow all got jobs there, so that they'd have permanent employee badges (i was a temp when i worked in the area, even though i worked at Lehman for quite a while). then they'd have to figure out how to get a lot of very substantial equipment in. they were very large buildings, it would have taken a LOT of demolition equipment.

like i said, i'm not saying it's impossible, just that i can't see how it is at all likely, and i can't see how it's supposed to be more likely than someone flying an airliner into the building after which it collapses.

the truck bomb in the 90s--there were lots of witnesses. they caught the guys who planned that one quite quick. why, after all these years, wouldn't someone who saw some of the suspicious activity and thought nothing of it at the time, come forth and support the demolition theory?

If it was the government they wouldn't have had a problem getting in.

Like I said I'm undecided just saying what could have or didn't happen

 

[zeusbheld]

Re: 9/11 Conspiracy.

Yes I do remember the van full of explosives, the security can't have been that good. This is far fetched but how do you know people weren't acting as cleaners, IT technicians etc etc.

Probably not true but just shows how possible it could have been

because it would have required a lot more people and they'd have actually had to go IN the building, not just drive into the parking garage.

to go into the WTC, except for the restaurant and viewing areas, you had to have an appointment. then the people at the desk would call up to the person you were supposed to meet. when the person acknowledged you were supposed to be there, you would then show your drivers' license and get a temporary badge.

only way i can see it is if they somehow all got jobs there, so that they'd have permanent employee badges (i was a temp when i worked in the area, even though i worked at Lehman for quite a while). then they'd have to figure out how to get a lot of very substantial equipment in. they were very large buildings, it would have taken a LOT of demolition equipment.

like i said, i'm not saying it's impossible, just that i can't see how it is at all likely, and i can't see how it's supposed to be more likely than someone flying an airliner into the building after which it collapses.

the truck bomb in the 90s--there were lots of witnesses. they caught the guys who planned that one quite quick. why, after all these years, wouldn't someone who saw some of the suspicious activity and thought nothing of it at the time, come forth and support the demolition theory?

If it was the government they wouldn't have had a problem getting in.

Like I said I'm undecided just saying what could have or didn't happen

but again, the VAST MAJORITY of the people who worked there were PRiVATE CiTIZENS. NOT government employees. it was a banking and trading hub not a gov't facility. why woulnd't someone who didn't work for the government notice all those technicians and work crews, and at least report it later? i can't see how some secretary or word processor or research assistant wouldn't have seen something and, upon seeing the building blow up, said something by now like "those work crews there in '92. that was kind of strange. what were they doing?"

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Who knows?

 

[zeusbheld]

Who knows?

who knows whether i will sprout pixie wings and fly away?

nobody knows. but i think it possible to have a pretty good guess...

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Who knows?

who knows whether i will sprout pixie wings and fly away?

nobody knows. but i think it possible to have a pretty good guess...

People have opinions, are you so against that?

 

[Uwe Rosler's Grandad]

I can't believe people still hang onto this conspiracy bollox. You should be ashamed of yourselves and if any lecturer is supporting this in a uni he should be arrested.

anyone interested in what happens when an aeroplane hits a reinforced wall at high speed look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

Note the F4 wing is structurally many times stronger than a 757.

Also note a 757 has 3 gas turbines.

That link explains a bit...thanks. You think the same thing would happen to a 757? And I guess the Pentagon walls were no where near as thick as the wall shown otherwise the plane wouldn't have made it through so many layers.

 

[Uwe Rosler's Grandad]

There was a programme on telly a few months or so back following a demolition team bringing down a hotel in Las Vegas. The amount of time, effort, explosives and stripping out that had to be done to get it to fall was amazing. I do not believe for one minute that the twin towers were brought down by explosives...the amount of activity required to do this would not have gone unnoticed.