9/11 documentary now

[west didsblue]

I don't know how much it cost

Like I said, it seems iffy. I find it very hard to believe that the events happened without any insiders or any prior knowledge whatsoever

It's not nice thinking that the US Government might, just might, have had something to do with it either activity or passively. They may not have done, of course

Out of interest, what are your thoughts on some of the trades, insurance claims etc?

The problem with the insurance conspiracy is that the buildings were under-insured. That's not a great way to make money. The fact they were insured against terrorism is hardly surprising considering there was a terrorist attack there in 1993.

 

[2sheikhs]

That NIST official report doesn't address the presence of moulten steel. It also doesn't address how fires were burning for 90 days despite being engulfed in water. It also doesn't explain the documented evidence of large quantities of burnt and unburnt thermite.
Ask yourself this..... If the experts who cast doubt on the official reports or go as far as saying it's a deliberate collusion were wrong, why haven't they been arrested and charged? It would involve a court case open to the public where ALL the evidence is put forward.

 

[abu13]

For every theory regarding 9/11 there seem to be so called experts on both sides with conflicting views, I suppose everyone needs to read as much as they can and make a decision themselves however I always ask people the following questions yes or no.

Do they trust the media?
Do they trust the government?
Do you trust the politicians?
Do you believe they have our best interests at heart?
Do they believe politics at the top level is beyond corruption?

Most people i ask reply no to all 5 questions, Nobody has ever said yes to all five and why would they. This is the part i can't understand, If that is the case then why accept the official version of events?

Personally i don't believe there is anything they wouldn't do if they believed the ends justified the means.

 

[2sheikhs]

That's correct abu13.
The thing is though, we sometimes benefit from all these dealings as a nation. This country has got us to where we are not just by punching above our weight regarding scientists and inventors. We also have natural resources. We also have had to undertake some pretty dubious practices historically to gain advantages. It's always happened.
We can either question the official verdicts that get spoofed to us or take it at face value and reap the rewards. It doesn't matter whether it's cheap labour to produce the clothes we wear or control of oil fields. Everything comes at a price.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

How would a localised fireball that happened at the top of a building so high and burnt out within seconds due to its volatile nature ignite something halfway down and below?
Maybe the explosions people saw and heard were just cans of coke and office water coolers exploding. Maybe when the falling structure was pressing down on the floors below, it had a seesaw effect and caused huge pieces to go up instead of down. Isaac newton must be turning in his grave. He got all his theories wrong.
One of the most bizarre things to come out of this tthough was one of the supposed phone calls from flight 93. A man ringing his mum to tell her that their plane has been hijacked by terrorists and that he loves her. He introduced himself by giving his first name and surname!!!! Who the fuck does that????

What do you think happened to the towers then, did they collapse due to planes hitting them or did they collapse because of explosives?

 

[abu13]

That's correct abu13.
The thing is though, we sometimes benefit from all these dealings as a nation. This country has got us to where we are not just by punching above our weight regarding scientists and inventors. We also have natural resources. We also have had to undertake some pretty dubious practices historically to gain advantages. It's always happened.
We can either question the official verdicts that get spoofed to us or take it at face value and reap the rewards. It doesn't matter whether it's cheap labour to produce the clothes we wear or control of oil fields. Everything comes at a price.

I agree completely it just amazes me at time how people can be so blinkered, the world isn't a sweet innocent place and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this was all pre planned in order to go to war and to give the government additional powers. People only have to look at the corruption and lies that have been uncovered over here in the last 20 years and i have little doubt that America is worse.

 

[meltonblue]

There are far easier ways to justify war if they wanted to than killing three thousand of their own citizens.

I personally don't like the conspiracy theories as I think they can detract from what is, for me, the far more interesting discussion on western foreign policy and how Al Qaeda rose in the first place. The Looming Tower (I think it was called that) is an excellent read on the subject.

The US were guilty of incompetence and long term failing in their foreign policy and that led to the events of 9/11. In no way do I think they had anything directly to do with it though.

 

[Jim Tolmie's Underpants]

The article above says that the design was investigated and found to be able to withstand a 600mph collision, NOT that it was actually designed for that.

Why quibble over terms?

The other structual engineer, John Skilling, also contends the buildings should have withstood the impact.

“The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.”
-John Skilling, one of the two structural engineers responsible for designing the Trade Center.

Even if the 600mph statement is correct and it was designed to withstand the subsequent fire do you think it's more likely that they miscalculated or that a large demolition team surreptitiously planted a load of charges without anyone noticing?

It's about as likely as 3 buildings - for the first and only time in recorded history - to completely collapse due to fire. And also as likely as a Building 7 violating the laws of physics and collapsing at freefall speed.

 

[west didsblue]

Not according to this report: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/sep/12/towers_built_to/

“I designed it for a 707 to smash into it.”

The other structual engineer, John Skilling, also contends the buildings should have withstood the impact.

“The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.”
-John Skilling, one of the two structural engineers responsible for designing the Trade Center.

You've missed the point.

I agreed it was designed for a lower speed collision and that ljworld link backs it up. It doesn't mention a 600mph collision.

The quote you've attributed to John Skilling was in fact from a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) 1964 white paper not written by Skilling and that white paper doesn't talk about fire.

To keep it simple:
The building was designed to withstand a 180-200mph collision and and subsequent fire. It's impossible to know if it would have done in reality but the damage to any cladding on structural steel probably wouldn't have been as bad thereby giving the structure a better chance of survival.

According to the PANYNJ white paper the design was investigated and found to be safe after a 600mph collision (however the lead structural engineer Les Robertson denied that this design investigation was actually carried out). No fire was discussed. The building withstood a 500mph collision. It was the subsequent fire that weakened the structure so that it collapsed.

 

[Jim Tolmie's Underpants]

They are lucky they didn't set all those explosives off when they hit the towers eh.

You're not even thinking about this rationally are you.

How do you know some charges weren't set off by the crashes but masked by the huge fireballs created by the combustion of aerosolized jet fuel? Secondly, explosives can be engineered so that heat alone will not detonate them. For example, high explosive RDX requires the simultaneous delivery of high heat and pressure to induce detonation. Thirdly, it is relatively easy to design casings for explosives that would allow them to survive even the most violent assaults. The casings of jetliners' black boxes protect their contents from impact accelerations of 3,400 Gs and from temperatures of 2,000ºF for up to 30 minutes.

You're not even thinking about this rationally are you?