9/11 - More evidence it was set up by people in the shadows

[TimmyP]

The whole scenario was bad enough but this takes it to a whole new level...I can't imagine the Americans would sit back on something like this, gonna cause a little political tension me thinks!!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The whole scenario was bad enough but this takes it to a whole new level...I can't imagine the Americans would sit back on something like this, gonna cause a little political tension me thinks!!

Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian tweeted as much:

If 9/11 hacking story is true, Murdoch empire is staring into the abyss: wrath of US public and politicians will be mighty to behold

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The whole scenario was bad enough but this takes it to a whole new level...I can't imagine the Americans would sit back on something like this, gonna cause a little political tension me thinks!!

Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian tweeted as much:

If 9/11 hacking story is true, Murdoch empire is staring into the abyss: wrath of US public and politicians will be mighty to behold

He's right. Fuck me I bet Murdoch's wishing he'd co-operated back in 2006. It wouldn't have got stateside if he had.

 

[Halfpenny]

If the 9/11 victim phone hacking story is legit, it's going to really hit the fan for Murdoch. He'd almost certainly face a congressional enquiry, an absolutely monumental backlash from the American public and ratings for Fox News would go through the floor. Staggering to think that such an expansive media empire can seemingly crumble in such a short time.

 

[MCFCinUSA]

I'm a big fan of The Zeitgeist Movement, and am a member. However, the first film dealing with 9/11 was completely full of shit and used flawed reasoning throughout.

A friend of mine asked me to watch this because they wanted to know my opinion of it, and I fully concur with your assessment above, Dr Damocles.

What's really most shocking is how you'd expect people to be able to think for themselves and be intelligent enough to figure out that man really did land on the moon and hijackers really did overpower aircraft and destroy the WTC with them. A lot of this rubbish being peddled by crackpots is easily debunked, and that's before you get into the really lunatic fairy-tale explanations and 'motivations' of invisible groups of people profiteering out of 9/11 or who needed to stir up an agenda through it.

People who think there's a mass conspiracy simply have no idea of what this would entail, and how impossible it would be, irrespective of how irrational and insane these ideas are.

It is truly frightening how stupid some people can be.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" Martin Luther King Jr

...nice paraphrase by the late Dr. MLK Jr tho what make's me laugh is the way you and others chuck the words crackpots, irrational, lunatic, agenda, conspiracy and theorists etc around as if to say anyone open minded enough to free-think out of the box for themselves with an analytical mind approach should be ridiculed subject to mockery and derision.

Power of the media eh ! (how truly frightening)

- because Maintainin, such stories are utterly foolish and childlike in their simplicity and lack of substance; hence the words I ascribe to them.

In my opinion, September 11th was an inside job. Now there will be a fair few, in fact probably the majority of members on this forum who will quickly dismiss the claim, stating it "impossible" and "irrational". Answer me this, why does the 9/11 commission report not even mention building 7? there are dozens upon dozens of unanswered questions, that in any other global catastrophic event would have been answered without hesitance, or at least looked into, which can not be said for 9/11. What makes you think the us government would not kill thousands of innocent lives, if what as a result of 9/11, the invasion of iraq, resulted in the killings of tens of thousands of innocent lives, men women and children. This is, of course, just my opinion, however, as some users have said throughout the topic is that these truthers or as so many of you call them "braindead conspiracy theorists" include Professors of physics, mechanical engineering, demolition experts, firemen on the scene of 9/11, ex cia members and countless more have come out and supported the "inside job" theory. Answers that are not answered and most sadly, will probably end up not being answered for the foreseeable future.

A few questions for you:-

- do you believe everything you 'read' and 'see'?

(like stories in newspapers similar to 'Aliens abducted my baby and brought her up as Elvis for six years')

Such a lot of what has been written and spoken about the above is absolute horseshit. Your job is to use your noddle and figure out what is sensible and rational, and what isn't.

Einstein did a lot of his theoretical physics work with what he called 'thought experiments'. Anyone with any experience and intelligence should be able to do the same sort of thing to figure out a few things regarding 9/11 and all the bullshit that's written and spoken about it.

- have you actually read the 9/11 Commission Report which you mention above with such authority?

There's about as much sense talked about this as there is in the Sanchez thread and the Transfer Forum. Use your common sense in interpreting things that other people sensationalise, make-up, and put out there for their own purposes.

- just because WTC 7 fell down, and possibly in a way that isn't easily understood or explained, it doesn't follow that there is a deep dark conspiracy behind the WTC attacks. In all probability it just means that after the aircraft hitting the buildings, and those buildings coming down, there was concomitant structural damage that weakened and collapsed other buildings around them. If you ever went to the WTC you'd know that underneath them there was extensive infrastructure including shops and transportation networks. Who knows what effect the collapse of the Twin Towers had on all of that, and in what sort of state the foundations of nearby buildings were left in? Those buildings stood 1/4 mile high and together weighed approximately 1 million tons. Think about it.

- finally, when you talk about "The US Gov't" just who are you referring to?

Every organisation is made up of individual people. There isn't this grey all-powerful faceless entity doing things off its own bat like in the Terminator movies (Skynet) it is made up of real people. Real people have children, wives, pensions, and ethical values. They make their own individual decisions, based upon their own self-interests; mostly pretty good ones.

Rather than regurgitate my earlier postings on this I invite you to read this <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026</a> (it'll only take you 2 minutes) and then come in back in here and explain what and how you envisage happened, AFTER you've given it a little more thought.

I know you can't be so stupid as to swallow hook, line and sinker the idiotic ramblings of other people without applying any of your own intelligence to the problem whatsoever!

 

[ctid-1990]

dont know if this has been posted already as i cant be arsed looking through 40 odd pages of this thread but there is a realy interesting video on you tube called loose change looking into the reasons behind why 9/11 was an inside job. Not sayin i deffinatley believe it but the points they put across do lead you to think there is a possibility it was an inside job by the US government and the reasons why it could have been beneficial to them.

 

[MCFCinUSA]

dont know if this has been posted already as i cant be arsed looking through 40 odd pages of this thread but there is a realy interesting video on you tube called loose change looking into the reasons behind why 9/11 was an inside job. Not sayin i deffinatley believe it but the points they put across do lead you to think there is a possibility it was an inside job by the US government and the reasons why it could have been beneficial to them.

Have you seen this film?

Do you believe in Santa Claus too?

(and you obviously didn't read the above post or this either: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026</a> )

Not to worry... Loose Change is another of the loony films CTID, but if you give it a little thought I'm sure you'll figure it out in the end.

 

[BulgarianPride]

dont know if this has been posted already as i cant be arsed looking through 40 odd pages of this thread but there is a realy interesting video on you tube called loose change looking into the reasons behind why 9/11 was an inside job. Not sayin i deffinatley believe it but the points they put across do lead you to think there is a possibility it was an inside job by the US government and the reasons why it could have been beneficial to them.

Have you seen this film?

Do you believe in Santa Claus too?

(and you obviously didn't read the above post or this either: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026</a> )

Not to worry... Loose Change is another of the loony films CTID, but if you give it a little thought I'm sure you'll figure it out in the end.

Try to turn your arrogance down a bit and maybe you would have a lot more success with your arguments.

 

[Maintainin]

A friend of mine asked me to watch this because they wanted to know my opinion of it, and I fully concur with your assessment above, Dr Damocles.

What's really most shocking is how you'd expect people to be able to think for themselves and be intelligent enough to figure out that man really did land on the moon and hijackers really did overpower aircraft and destroy the WTC with them. A lot of this rubbish being peddled by crackpots is easily debunked, and that's before you get into the really lunatic fairy-tale explanations and 'motivations' of invisible groups of people profiteering out of 9/11 or who needed to stir up an agenda through it.

People who think there's a mass conspiracy simply have no idea of what this would entail, and how impossible it would be, irrespective of how irrational and insane these ideas are.

It is truly frightening how stupid some people can be.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" Martin Luther King Jr

...nice paraphrase by the late Dr. MLK Jr tho what make's me laugh is the way you and others chuck the words crackpots, irrational, lunatic, agenda, conspiracy and theorists etc around as if to say anyone open minded enough to free-think out of the box for themselves with an analytical mind approach should be ridiculed subject to mockery and derision.

Power of the media eh ! (how truly frightening)

- because Maintainin, such stories are utterly foolish and childlike in their simplicity and lack of substance; hence the words I ascribe to them.

In my opinion, September 11th was an inside job. Now there will be a fair few, in fact probably the majority of members on this forum who will quickly dismiss the claim, stating it "impossible" and "irrational". Answer me this, why does the 9/11 commission report not even mention building 7? there are dozens upon dozens of unanswered questions, that in any other global catastrophic event would have been answered without hesitance, or at least looked into, which can not be said for 9/11. What makes you think the us government would not kill thousands of innocent lives, if what as a result of 9/11, the invasion of iraq, resulted in the killings of tens of thousands of innocent lives, men women and children. This is, of course, just my opinion, however, as some users have said throughout the topic is that these truthers or as so many of you call them "braindead conspiracy theorists" include Professors of physics, mechanical engineering, demolition experts, firemen on the scene of 9/11, ex cia members and countless more have come out and supported the "inside job" theory. Answers that are not answered and most sadly, will probably end up not being answered for the foreseeable future.

A few questions for you:-

- do you believe everything you 'read' and 'see'?

(like stories in newspapers similar to 'Aliens abducted my baby and brought her up as Elvis for six years')

Such a lot of what has been written and spoken about the above is absolute horseshit. Your job is to use your noddle and figure out what is sensible and rational, and what isn't.

Einstein did a lot of his theoretical physics work with what he called 'thought experiments'. Anyone with any experience and intelligence should be able to do the same sort of thing to figure out a few things regarding 9/11 and all the bullshit that's written and spoken about it.

- have you actually read the 9/11 Commission Report which you mention above with such authority?

There's about as much sense talked about this as there is in the Sanchez thread and the Transfer Forum. Use your common sense in interpreting things that other people sensationalise, make-up, and put out there for their own purposes.

- just because WTC 7 fell down, and possibly in a way that isn't easily understood or explained, it doesn't follow that there is a deep dark conspiracy behind the WTC attacks. In all probability it just means that after the aircraft hitting the buildings, and those buildings coming down, there was concomitant structural damage that weakened and collapsed other buildings around them. If you ever went to the WTC you'd know that underneath them there was extensive infrastructure including shops and transportation networks. Who knows what effect the collapse of the Twin Towers had on all of that, and in what sort of state the foundations of nearby buildings were left in? Those buildings stood 1/4 mile high and together weighed approximately 1 million tons. Think about it.

- finally, when you talk about "The US Gov't" just who are you referring to?

Every organisation is made up of individual people. There isn't this grey all-powerful faceless entity doing things off its own bat like in the Terminator movies (Skynet) it is made up of real people. Real people have children, wives, pensions, and ethical values. They make their own individual decisions, based upon their own self-interests; mostly pretty good ones.

Rather than regurgitate my earlier postings on this I invite you to read this <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139026</a> (it'll only take you 2 minutes) and then come in back in here and explain what and how you envisage happened, AFTER you've given it a little more thought.

I know you can't be so stupid as to swallow hook, line and sinker the idiotic ramblings of other people without applying any of your own intelligence to the problem whatsoever!

...it were his personal opinion thought of by himself then shared, buh' there you go again eh Chuckie !

Anyways, let us step away from the WTC for a moment and have a lil look at events in the nations capital...

The general public are told that after contact were lost with Flight 77 and its transponder was deactivated an 'unidentified' aircraft was eventually picked up on radar headin for the nations capital at some 500 miles an hour and that this turned out to be Flight 77.

(Unidentified) Have you seen the tracking technology available to NORAD and Cheyenne Mountain ?
Even when a transponder is turned 'off' a plane can still be tracked by conventional radar let alone by the technology those guys have !

At around 9.27 NORAD says it ordered jets scrambled from Langley Air Force Base over in Virginia (where CIA's own fleet are based) to intercept Flight 77.

At 9.35 it is said three F-16 Fighter Falcons took off from Langley for Washington DC, note the approximately eight minutes' response time before they were in the air in this official story when the Air Force apparently claims response times of scramble to 29,000 feet in two and a half minutes.

An F-16 has a top speed of some 1,800 miles an hour, twice the speed of sound.

At 9.37 Flight 77 was 'lost from radar screens' and as the story goes hit the Pentagon a minute later precisely 60 years to the day since construction of the building began on 9/11 1941 same year as Pearl Harbor.

Anyway the general public were told the NORAD jets arrived at 9.49 !

These jets flew at speeds of about ".9 mach" or juss below the speed of sound according to information shared by Barry Venable the spokesman for NORAD, he's noted as saying that .9 mach is between 603 and 675 miles per hour depending on the altitude the jets were flying at, the higher they fly the faster they go.

Of course, their top speed of 1,800 miles an hour is not possible over land at lower altitudes, but less than the speed of sound for jets capable of twice the speed of sound might legitimately be questioned here when they were pursuing a suspected hijacked passenger airliner headin for the nations capital after two others had been crashed into NYC's WTC buildings...

The same NORAD spokesman Barry Venable also quoted similar speeds for the jets NORAD say were scrambled from Otis Air Force Base, however an Otis spokesman quoted by the local Cape Cod Times said the 153 miles from there to NYC can be made by an F-15 in as little as ten minutes, that's around 918 miles per hour.

This speed would have put jets from Langley over the Pentagon at about 9.38/39 just as Flight 77 was turning in to crash not "12 minutes or 105 miles away" as the NORAD timelines says they were at the time of impact.

A commercial airliner can fly from Washington DC to Ohio turn back and fly all the way from the Midwest to cross a 'No Fly Zone' and then crash into the headquarters of the most powerful military force on the Planet Earth without a military reponse worth the name ! ? !

Vice President Dick Cheney even told NBC Meet the Press programme that: "It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate." Did he say this to divert attention from the fact that this is precisely what was/is happening every week in the skies of North America ?
You can check out and intercept, stop, deflect or interrupt the progress or intended course of an aircraft without shooting it down for goodness sake ! or was this Cheney's attempt to mislead the general public from the central questions that will inleash the genie.


Andrews Air Force Base the very one designated to defend the nations capital is only a little over ten miles away over the water from DC and pilots from AAFB could have had breakfast and still intercepted Flight 77 with time to spare.

This is even allowing for the fact that NORAD only activated interception procedures some 34 minutes after contact with the plane was lost.

Andrews Air Force Base is a minute or so away by fighter jet from Washington DC and that's why it is the nations capital's first line of air defence, in the name of sanity the airspace above the Pentagon and the White House at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is a No Fly Zone ffs and thus of course there are going to be squadrons on standby at the nearest Air Force Base to defend and protect it's interests.

AAFB is one of the most famous bases in America and home of Air Force One not to mention foreign heads of State often pass through there. Again, are you going to locate the presidential plane at a base that does not have fighters that are ready to move at a moment's notice?

AAFB in fact has two major squadrons on what are officially termed the highest possible state of readiness, these are the 121st Fighter Squadron of the 113th Fighter Wing and the 321st Marine Fighter Attack Squadron of the 49th Marine Air Group.

Yes thousands of people are employed at the base and they have at their disposal the very F-16s that NORAD says it deployed from Langley, plus F/A-18 Fighters.

The sidewinder missiles carried by F-16s have a range of 18 miles and they would only have to get off the ground, lock in and fire to stop a plane crashing into the Pentagon, the fact that these jets were not scrambled from Andrews Air Force Base at any time before impact with the Pentagon is stunning.

The Andrews AFB website went down immediatly after 9/11 and did not reappear until around mid-November, when it came back online it no longer had a link to the Air Force web pages describing the capabilities and mission of 113th Fighter Wing of the Air National Guard at Andrews and the capability of reacting immediately to any threat by air to the nations capital.

MCFCinUSA: In your personal opinion, putting the actual size of the initial hole aside for a moment, what caused the first shown and reported hole in the wall at the Pentagon ? (serious question btw)

 

[fulabeer]

I always think some of these claims can be possible, just highly unlikely.
That's how i judge everything in life.

I stay open minded, but commen sense allows me to dismiss most of these outragious claims.
However some people like to believe that there is more to events than meets the eye.
Sometimes they may be right, but most of the time, it is just to indulge their own imature fantasies
Like the moon landings. Some believe they where faked.
They could have been. But the posssibility of it being faked outweighs any rational thinking.

I think governments do control information. They also get up to all sorts of tricks.
I just think it is all on a much smaller scale than the conspiracy theorists like to think.

I do have one little story that will only fan the flames though.
Whilst working on the railway years a go, we were going through a period of strikes.
A workmate started to make claims he thought the police were watching him.
We couldn't see any sense why he would be of any interest.
One day i got a message that he needed to meet up, but wouldn't say why on the phone.
Turns out that he had decided his phone was being tapped.
This was dismissed out of hand at first. However, he began to tell some interesting things.
The first one was that his mail appeared to have been opened, and then resealed.
The sealed edges all started to have a mottled effect.
Second, he said when he had finished a call on his home phone, he went to call somebody else.
Instead of hearing a dail tone, he instead listened to his own conversation he had just had played back to him!
He said this had happened more than once.
The bit we couldn't get was why the interest in him?

It turns out that during the strike days, certain "anti government groups" turned up at the picket lines, and he had agreed to attend some meetings.
He also attended a few socialists workers meetings.
He was certain this is what had pricked somebodies interest.

We decided as a group to put it to a test.
We had noticed that the Police were turning up at "flying picket" sites before us.
These were normally arranged at short notice, but had assumed they just got lucky.
So we arranged for this lad to phone another strike member, and organise a meet the following morning.
It was at a location that was of no interest to us, and one we had never visited before.
Only three people knew about it. Me, my mate, and the person he called.
The rest of the group were told to just follow us.
The location was in the middle of nowhere, yet when we arrived at 5.30am, the place was crawling with police.

The next interesting thing was when somebody sabotaged some signalling equipment.
I had stated several times at strike meetings and during phone calls, that if i found out who had done it, that i would shop them to the police.
Other members however had expressed pleasure that somebody had taken such direct action.
It is amazing how militant normallly passive people get during strike action.

In the next few days, everybody except me was brought in for questioning about the sabotage.
This actually lead to me being accused of being a management/police spy!

So while I still don't go for these big conspiracy theories, I do think intelligence gathering and small scale state manipulation is a normal and everyday occurrence.
This is not paranoia, just reasonable and realistic assumptions.