9-11

[GazC]

if you look at the Allied casuality figures at Iwo Jima & Okinawa coupled with millions having the no surrender attitude & a landing on Mainland Japan would have been Hell.
A B-29 incendiary raid over Tokyo killed about 125,000 people another nearly 100,000,a bombing raid 100 times that would have been needed to guarantee air supremecy,do the maths & then think for yourself for a change.

If would have been hell, were it necessary. It wasn't, and wouldn't have been. Japan was on the verge of surrender already. It's a straw man of epic proportions.

Again, you think the likes of Eisenhower and Leahy need to think for themselves as well? Christ you're arrogant.

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

The bomb was a necessary evil, or at least appeared so at the time. If a conditional surrender wasn't accepted by the US, and I think it's more than fair to speculate the US would only have settled for an unconditional surrender then it certainly would have been forthcoming to the Soviets when August Storm was completed.

Can you imagine the ramifications of the entire Korean peninsula, the Japanese home islands and the pacific islands of the former empire coming under Soviet or Com Chi control?

 

[BulgarianPride]

Rape of Nanking 300 thousand men women and children murdered hmmm the Japanese at this time were nice people.

So you are justifying murder by commuting more murder?

No one would advocate travelling to kill people.

Damn spell checker, corrected commiting to commuting instead of committing.

 

[sweynforkbeard]

So you are justifying murder by commuting more murder?

No one would advocate travelling to kill people.

Damn spell checker, corrected commiting to commuting instead of committing.

I do apologise - couldn't resist!

 

[Dalian Blue]

if you look at the Allied casuality figures at Iwo Jima & Okinawa coupled with millions having the no surrender attitude & a landing on Mainland Japan would have been Hell.
A B-29 incendiary raid over Tokyo killed about 125,000 people another nearly 100,000,a bombing raid 100 times that would have been needed to guarantee air supremecy,do the maths & then think for yourself for a change.

If would have been hell, were it necessary. It wasn't, and wouldn't have been. Japan was on the verge of surrender already. It's a straw man of epic proportions.

Again, you think the likes of Eisenhower and Leahy need to think for themselves as well? Christ you're arrogant.

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

The bomb was a necessary evil, or at least appeared so at the time. If a conditional surrender wasn't accepted by the US, and I think it's more than fair to speculate the US would only have settled for an unconditional surrender then it certainly would have been forthcoming to the Soviets when August Storm was completed.

Can you imagine the ramifications of the entire Korean peninsula, the Japanese home islands and the pacific islands of the former empire coming under Soviet or Com Chi control?[/quote]

Could you imagine that region under Japanese control?
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731</a>

 

[GazC]

If would have been hell, were it necessary. It wasn't, and wouldn't have been. Japan was on the verge of surrender already. It's a straw man of epic proportions.

Again, you think the likes of Eisenhower and Leahy need to think for themselves as well? Christ you're arrogant.

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

The bomb was a necessary evil, or at least appeared so at the time. If a conditional surrender wasn't accepted by the US, and I think it's more than fair to speculate the US would only have settled for an unconditional surrender then it certainly would have been forthcoming to the Soviets when August Storm was completed.

Can you imagine the ramifications of the entire Korean peninsula, the Japanese home islands and the pacific islands of the former empire coming under Soviet or Com Chi control?[/quote]

Could you imagine that region under Japanese control?
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731</a>

That was a viable outcome had the US negotiated a conditional surrender.

 

[Skashion]

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

No, the people I'm quoting evidently were though. What if shock horror, they'd left the Japanese Emperor in place, I mean, what would the ramifications be?

 

[Dalian Blue]

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

The bomb was a necessary evil, or at least appeared so at the time. If a conditional surrender wasn't accepted by the US, and I think it's more than fair to speculate the US would only have settled for an unconditional surrender then it certainly would have been forthcoming to the Soviets when August Storm was completed.

Can you imagine the ramifications of the entire Korean peninsula, the Japanese home islands and the pacific islands of the former empire coming under Soviet or Com Chi control?[/quote]

Could you imagine that region under Japanese control?
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731</a>

That was a viable outcome had the US negotiated a conditional surrender.

My use of that quote didn't work too well, it was my intention to use it towards the link to a wikipedia article.
Eastern China (Liaoning Province) had been under Imperial Japanese rule until it was liberated by the Soviets in 1945, it didn't take too many years for those nasty Soviets to hand the province back to China.

 

[GazC]

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

No, the people I'm quoting evidently were though. What if shock horror, they'd left the Japanese Emperor in place, I mean, what would the ramifications be?

You say Japan were attempting a surrender, but that was conditional rather than unconditional therefore not really a rebuttal of the justification of the use of the bomb.<br /><br />-- Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:15 am --<br /><br />

Japan was on the verge of trying to negotiate a conditional surrender, are you purposely ignoring this?

The bomb was a necessary evil, or at least appeared so at the time. If a conditional surrender wasn't accepted by the US, and I think it's more than fair to speculate the US would only have settled for an unconditional surrender then it certainly would have been forthcoming to the Soviets when August Storm was completed.

Can you imagine the ramifications of the entire Korean peninsula, the Japanese home islands and the pacific islands of the former empire coming under Soviet or Com Chi control?[/quote]

Could you imagine that region under Japanese control?
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731</a>

That was a viable outcome had the US negotiated a conditional surrender.

My use of that quote didn't work too well, it was my intention to use it towards the link to a wikipedia article.
Eastern China (Liaoning Province) had been under Imperial Japanese rule until it was liberated by the Soviets in 1945, it didn't take too many years for those nasty Soviets to hand the province back to China.

Yes but they gave it to Com Chi rather than Nat Chi.

 

[Skashion]

You say Japan were attempting a surrender, but that was conditional rather than unconditional therefore not really a rebuttal of the justification of the use of the bomb.

I don't believe the letters U and N on a document constitute a justification for killing between 150,000 and 250,000 people.

 

[GazC]

You say Japan were attempting a surrender, but that was conditional rather than unconditional therefore not really a rebuttal of the justification of the use of the bomb.

I don't believe the letters U and N on a document constitute a justification for killing between 150,000 and 250,000 people.

But a conditional surrender to the US would have seen Japan continue to fight the Soviets, Nat China and Com China; elongating the civil war and thus likely seeing an invasion of Taiwan. How many lives would have been lost in this scenario?

Those aren't just letters on a document.