a secular society by 2030

[hilts]

Posting in my official mod capacity here, can you all stop being argumentative cockwombles please?

That is some wishful thinking there, an end to world poverty is more achievable

 

[pauldominic]

Thought you ceasing to post in these threads

And still waiting

You can wait all you want.

I've re-organised my forum subscriptions and I can now have a civilised debate / discussion on the thorniest of religious/theological issues.

That gives me complete freedom to poke fun at the pig-headed subscribers to BlueMoon who are incapable of listening.

EDIT: On the subject of gay marriage, you don't need me to explain. The mighty internet has all the answers you need if you can keep an open mind :)

so what was all that nonsense in your PM then?

do you know you shouldn't tell lies

and changing your identity won't get you anywhere, you'll soon be sussed, a leopard cannot change its spots

You're open minded and intelligent. Do the research and then give us a literature review / critical appraisal of the topic.

 

[Shadz69]

Paul if you get upset by one of NF's rants you may as well give up posting,very few havent been victim of one and it's a rite of passage on here although it is funnier when you aint on the receiving end.
Try not to take it to heart so much and keep up the good fight.

 

[tonea2003]

You can wait all you want.

I've re-organised my forum subscriptions and I can now have a civilised debate / discussion on the thorniest of religious/theological issues.

That gives me complete freedom to poke fun at the pig-headed subscribers to BlueMoon who are incapable of listening.

EDIT: On the subject of gay marriage, you don't need me to explain. The mighty internet has all the answers you need if you can keep an open mind :)

so what was all that nonsense in your PM then?

do you know you shouldn't tell lies

and changing your identity won't get you anywhere, you'll soon be sussed, a leopard cannot change its spots

You're open minded and intelligent. Do the research and then give us a literature review / critical appraisal of the topic.

the more you avoid the more i will ask
you told me you would give me your view on same sex relationships or the christian concerns as you put it, so lets have it

i'm also intelligent enough not to let you answer a question with a question, one of avoidance tactics that you use

 

[tonea2003]

more nonsense from the catholic church

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9795680/Gay-marriage-could-signal-return-to-centuries-of-persecution-say-1000-Catholic-priests.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... iests.html</a>


Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, - say 1,000 Catholic priests
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month Photo: ALAMY
By John Bingham, Religious Affairs Editor9:50PM GMT 11 Jan 2013
In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".
They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.
They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Even the freedom to speak from the pulpit could be under threat, they claim.
And they fear that Christians who believe in the traditional meaning of marriage would effectively be excluded from some jobs – just as Catholics were barred from many professions from the Reformation until the 19th Century.
Related Articles
Gay marriage plans are 'divisive' and 'ill-thought through', says Fox 10 Jan 2013
Primary school teachers 'could face sack' for refusing to promote gay marriage 18 Nov 2012
The comments are contained in a letter to The Daily Telegraph, signed by 1,054 priests as well as 13 bishops, abbots and other senior Catholic figures.
They account for almost a quarer of all Catholic priests in England and Wales.
It comes as opponents of gay marriage launch a lobbying campaign targeting MPs in 65 of the most marginal seats.
The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month.
Legal opinions commissioned by opponents have argued that teachers could face disciplinary measures under equality laws if they refuse to promote same-sex marriage once the change has been implemented.
Hospital, prison and army chaplains could also face challenges if they preach on marriage being between a man and a woman, it is claimed.
Until 1829 Catholics and other religious dissenters in Britain and Ireland were barred from entering many professions or, in many cases, even meeting to worship under a body of restrictions collectively known as the penal laws.
The priests write: “After centuries of persecution, Catholics have, in recent times, been able to be members of the professions and participate fully in the life of this country.
“Legislation for same sex marriage, should it be enacted, will have many legal consequences, severely restricting the ability of Catholics to teach the truth about marriage in their schools, charitable institutions or places of worship.
“It is meaningless to argue that Catholics and others may still teach their beliefs about marriage in schools and other arenas if they are also expected to uphold the opposite view at the same time.”
Arguing that marriage as traditionally understood is “the foundation and basic building block of our society”, they add: “We urge Members of Parliament not to be afraid to reject this legislation now that its consequences are more clear.”
Last night the Bishop of Portsmouth, the Rt Rev Philip Egan, one of the signatories, insisted that the comparison with the penal laws was “dramatic” but not an exaggeration.
“It is quite Orwellian to try to redefine marriage,” he said.
“This is strong language but something like this totalitarian.
“I am very anxious that when we are preaching in Church or teaching in our Catholic Schools or witnessing to the Christian faith of what marriage is that we are not going to be able to do it – that we could be arrested for being bigots or homophobes.”
Rev Dr Andrew Pinsent, a leading Oxford University theologian, who also signed the letter, said: “We are very sensitive to this historically because of course the reformation started in England as a matter of marriage.
“Henry VIII could have been forgiven for his adultery but he didn’t want to do that, he wanted to control marriage and redefine what was a marriage and wasn’t.
“Because the Church would not concede that point, that launched three centuries of great upheaval in English society, and from the Catholic point of view life was very difficult.
“We fear that what is happening now is that a network of laws are being put in place which would violate our freedom of conscience.”
He added: “I think people in the Westminster bubble have underestimated the level of concern in the country – at a local level there is great concern about these things.”
In recent weeks the Archbishop of Westminster, Vincent Nichols, and several other leading Catholics in Britain have stepped up their attacks on David Cameron’s plans, echoing concern in a series of pronouncements from Pope Benedict.
But the letter is the first large scale protest initiated by local priests.
Rev Mark Swires, one of the organisers, said it had taken weeks to compile the signatures but that it showed the strength of opinion in the pews.
“This is a grass roots initiative by priests, it isn’t an initiative by the hierarchy of the church.”
A Department for Education spokesperson said: “The Government’s proposals for equal marriage do not change anything about teaching in schools.
“Teachers will continue to be able to express their own personal beliefs about marriage.
“Schools have a requirement to ensure they do not teach anything that would be considered inappropriate to a pupil’s age, religious or cultural background and they must ensure pupils are presented with balanced, factual information about the nature and importance of marriage for family life and bringing up children.
“This will not change.”

-- Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:56 pm --

 

[SWP's back]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY[/youtube]

Thought you ceasing to post in these threads

And still waiting

You can wait all you want.

I've re-organised my forum subscriptions and I can now have a civilised debate / discussion on the thorniest of religious/theological issues.

That gives me complete freedom to poke fun at the pig-headed subscribers to BlueMoon who are incapable of listening.

EDIT: On the subject of gay marriage, you don't need me to explain. The mighty internet has all the answers you need if you can keep an open mind :)

Incapable of listening to the asinine ramblings of a confused person. Can't really blame them.

 

[Shadz69]

Out of interest when did Christian represenatives stop presiding over same sex unions.I have read a few bits and pieces but the dates are confusing and no source seem to agree when exactly.

 

[SWP's back]

more nonsense from the catholic church

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9795680/Gay-marriage-could-signal-return-to-centuries-of-persecution-say-1000-Catholic-priests.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... iests.html</a>


Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, - say 1,000 Catholic priests
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month Photo: ALAMY
By John Bingham, Religious Affairs Editor9:50PM GMT 11 Jan 2013
In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".
They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.
They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Even the freedom to speak from the pulpit could be under threat, they claim.
And they fear that Christians who believe in the traditional meaning of marriage would effectively be excluded from some jobs – just as Catholics were barred from many professions from the Reformation until the 19th Century.
Related Articles
Gay marriage plans are 'divisive' and 'ill-thought through', says Fox 10 Jan 2013
Primary school teachers 'could face sack' for refusing to promote gay marriage 18 Nov 2012
The comments are contained in a letter to The Daily Telegraph, signed by 1,054 priests as well as 13 bishops, abbots and other senior Catholic figures.
They account for almost a quarer of all Catholic priests in England and Wales.
It comes as opponents of gay marriage launch a lobbying campaign targeting MPs in 65 of the most marginal seats.
The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month.
Legal opinions commissioned by opponents have argued that teachers could face disciplinary measures under equality laws if they refuse to promote same-sex marriage once the change has been implemented.
Hospital, prison and army chaplains could also face challenges if they preach on marriage being between a man and a woman, it is claimed.
Until 1829 Catholics and other religious dissenters in Britain and Ireland were barred from entering many professions or, in many cases, even meeting to worship under a body of restrictions collectively known as the penal laws.
The priests write: “After centuries of persecution, Catholics have, in recent times, been able to be members of the professions and participate fully in the life of this country.
“Legislation for same sex marriage, should it be enacted, will have many legal consequences, severely restricting the ability of Catholics to teach the truth about marriage in their schools, charitable institutions or places of worship.
“It is meaningless to argue that Catholics and others may still teach their beliefs about marriage in schools and other arenas if they are also expected to uphold the opposite view at the same time.”
Arguing that marriage as traditionally understood is “the foundation and basic building block of our society”, they add: “We urge Members of Parliament not to be afraid to reject this legislation now that its consequences are more clear.”
Last night the Bishop of Portsmouth, the Rt Rev Philip Egan, one of the signatories, insisted that the comparison with the penal laws was “dramatic” but not an exaggeration.
“It is quite Orwellian to try to redefine marriage,” he said.
“This is strong language but something like this totalitarian.
“I am very anxious that when we are preaching in Church or teaching in our Catholic Schools or witnessing to the Christian faith of what marriage is that we are not going to be able to do it – that we could be arrested for being bigots or homophobes.”
Rev Dr Andrew Pinsent, a leading Oxford University theologian, who also signed the letter, said: “We are very sensitive to this historically because of course the reformation started in England as a matter of marriage.
“Henry VIII could have been forgiven for his adultery but he didn’t want to do that, he wanted to control marriage and redefine what was a marriage and wasn’t.
“Because the Church would not concede that point, that launched three centuries of great upheaval in English society, and from the Catholic point of view life was very difficult.
“We fear that what is happening now is that a network of laws are being put in place which would violate our freedom of conscience.”
He added: “I think people in the Westminster bubble have underestimated the level of concern in the country – at a local level there is great concern about these things.”
In recent weeks the Archbishop of Westminster, Vincent Nichols, and several other leading Catholics in Britain have stepped up their attacks on David Cameron’s plans, echoing concern in a series of pronouncements from Pope Benedict.
But the letter is the first large scale protest initiated by local priests.
Rev Mark Swires, one of the organisers, said it had taken weeks to compile the signatures but that it showed the strength of opinion in the pews.
“This is a grass roots initiative by priests, it isn’t an initiative by the hierarchy of the church.”
A Department for Education spokesperson said: “The Government’s proposals for equal marriage do not change anything about teaching in schools.
“Teachers will continue to be able to express their own personal beliefs about marriage.
“Schools have a requirement to ensure they do not teach anything that would be considered inappropriate to a pupil’s age, religious or cultural background and they must ensure pupils are presented with balanced, factual information about the nature and importance of marriage for family life and bringing up children.
“This will not change.”

-- Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:56 pm --

What a bunch of arseholes they are.

 

[lloydie]

Nah - sorry.

His posting density is beyond me because I have other things I like doing and somehow he manages it while saving the global economy.

I may be mistaken it could have been NF who first used that term.If so are you NF in disguise?

Frankly who cares who used it.

It was a one word response to someone who has posted these things about me: -

"Paul - please do me a huge favour and just shut the fuck up comparing your knowledge of social work having never done the job,with mine having done it for nine years,and having lectured social work students personally.
I actually stated the required qualifications expected of a social worker,if only you could read properly.
Stick around long enough though and I'm sure some topic will eventually come up that you are qualified to pass opinion on.
Although for the life of me I can't imagine just what it would be."

"I'll tell you what you know about social work Paul - a big,fat fuck all,as Zim has pointed out.
What on earth knowledge do you glean from having a partner who does a job that you don't?
Are you so utterly bereft of common sense and logic that you think you can understand the day to day issues that present in a job you have never done?
All you ever do is post some ignorant claptrap about something that others clearly understand better than you do,mainly because they have actually done the job,and then try to rationalise your stupid interventions with yet more ignorance.
When this fails,you try to shit stir and set posters against each other in some sorry attempt to move the goalposts,as you become increasingly out of your depth.
Myself and Andyhinch get on just fine,and enjoy a mutual joke on occasion.
This is yet another thing that has precisely fuck all to do with you,as you clearly don't get the concept of humour.
Apparently we can't infer that you are utterly bonkers any more,so I won't.
But if you come on here spouting complete crap about a job that I have done and you haven't then you will get the reality check that you deserve. "

Paul - there is no point in trying to debate rationally with you,because you simply don't appear to be in any way capable of reasoned discussion like most normal people
You seldom read the posts of others properly,and simply cherry pick bits that you want to read,ie those that coincide with your cosy and simplistic worldview.
I joined this thread because I have relevant experience of social work,and know first hand how hard the job has become.
You then chose to wade in with no relevant experience whatsoever and had a go,inferring that I was wrong.
I think most posters will come to the conclusion that this makes you an ill-informed arrogant troll - nobody asked you to gatecrash the thread and show your ignorance,yet you come on here and have a go at both me and Zim who have actually done the job.
To be honest,you just bore me nowadays with your trite Ned Flanders tribute act,and your habit of reporting every other post when someone has the temerity to take issue with you,so in future I shall just ignore your inane ramblings,lest I get banned,as seemingly you are bulletproof on here,for reasons that escape me.

I think I was being very polite.

p.s. NF and Zinny, neither of you have given us an explanation as to how safeguarding will be replaced across all social work client groups and sectors.

To be fair, Paul, as someone who currently works for a Safeguarding Children's Unit, and has previously attempted a rational debate with you, all those posts are fully justified.

 

[BlueMooney]

more nonsense from the catholic church

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9795680/Gay-marriage-could-signal-return-to-centuries-of-persecution-say-1000-Catholic-priests.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... iests.html</a>


Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, - say 1,000 Catholic priests
More than 1,000 priests have signed a letter voicing alarm that same-sex marriage could threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during “centuries of persecution” of Roman Catholics in England.

The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month Photo: ALAMY
By John Bingham, Religious Affairs Editor9:50PM GMT 11 Jan 2013
In one of the biggest joint letters of its type ever written, they raise fears that their freedom to practise and speak about their faith will be “severely” limited and dismiss Government reassurances as "meaningless".
They even liken David Cameron’s moves to redefine marriage to those of Henry VIII, whose efforts to secure a divorce from Katherine of Aragon triggered centuries of bloody upheaval between church and state.
They claim that, taken in combination with equalities laws and other legal restraints, the Coalition's plans will prevent Catholics and other Christians who work in schools, charities and other public bodies speaking freely about their beliefs on the meaning of marriage.
Even the freedom to speak from the pulpit could be under threat, they claim.
And they fear that Christians who believe in the traditional meaning of marriage would effectively be excluded from some jobs – just as Catholics were barred from many professions from the Reformation until the 19th Century.
Related Articles
Gay marriage plans are 'divisive' and 'ill-thought through', says Fox 10 Jan 2013
Primary school teachers 'could face sack' for refusing to promote gay marriage 18 Nov 2012
The comments are contained in a letter to The Daily Telegraph, signed by 1,054 priests as well as 13 bishops, abbots and other senior Catholic figures.
They account for almost a quarer of all Catholic priests in England and Wales.
It comes as opponents of gay marriage launch a lobbying campaign targeting MPs in 65 of the most marginal seats.
The Coalition is due to publish its Equal Marriage Bill, allowing couples of the same sex to wed at the end of this month.
Legal opinions commissioned by opponents have argued that teachers could face disciplinary measures under equality laws if they refuse to promote same-sex marriage once the change has been implemented.
Hospital, prison and army chaplains could also face challenges if they preach on marriage being between a man and a woman, it is claimed.
Until 1829 Catholics and other religious dissenters in Britain and Ireland were barred from entering many professions or, in many cases, even meeting to worship under a body of restrictions collectively known as the penal laws.
The priests write: “After centuries of persecution, Catholics have, in recent times, been able to be members of the professions and participate fully in the life of this country.
“Legislation for same sex marriage, should it be enacted, will have many legal consequences, severely restricting the ability of Catholics to teach the truth about marriage in their schools, charitable institutions or places of worship.
“It is meaningless to argue that Catholics and others may still teach their beliefs about marriage in schools and other arenas if they are also expected to uphold the opposite view at the same time.”
Arguing that marriage as traditionally understood is “the foundation and basic building block of our society”, they add: “We urge Members of Parliament not to be afraid to reject this legislation now that its consequences are more clear.”
Last night the Bishop of Portsmouth, the Rt Rev Philip Egan, one of the signatories, insisted that the comparison with the penal laws was “dramatic” but not an exaggeration.
“It is quite Orwellian to try to redefine marriage,” he said.
“This is strong language but something like this totalitarian.
“I am very anxious that when we are preaching in Church or teaching in our Catholic Schools or witnessing to the Christian faith of what marriage is that we are not going to be able to do it – that we could be arrested for being bigots or homophobes.”
Rev Dr Andrew Pinsent, a leading Oxford University theologian, who also signed the letter, said: “We are very sensitive to this historically because of course the reformation started in England as a matter of marriage.
“Henry VIII could have been forgiven for his adultery but he didn’t want to do that, he wanted to control marriage and redefine what was a marriage and wasn’t.
“Because the Church would not concede that point, that launched three centuries of great upheaval in English society, and from the Catholic point of view life was very difficult.
“We fear that what is happening now is that a network of laws are being put in place which would violate our freedom of conscience.”
He added: “I think people in the Westminster bubble have underestimated the level of concern in the country – at a local level there is great concern about these things.”
In recent weeks the Archbishop of Westminster, Vincent Nichols, and several other leading Catholics in Britain have stepped up their attacks on David Cameron’s plans, echoing concern in a series of pronouncements from Pope Benedict.
But the letter is the first large scale protest initiated by local priests.
Rev Mark Swires, one of the organisers, said it had taken weeks to compile the signatures but that it showed the strength of opinion in the pews.
“This is a grass roots initiative by priests, it isn’t an initiative by the hierarchy of the church.”
A Department for Education spokesperson said: “The Government’s proposals for equal marriage do not change anything about teaching in schools.
“Teachers will continue to be able to express their own personal beliefs about marriage.
“Schools have a requirement to ensure they do not teach anything that would be considered inappropriate to a pupil’s age, religious or cultural background and they must ensure pupils are presented with balanced, factual information about the nature and importance of marriage for family life and bringing up children.
“This will not change.”

What are they so afraid of?

I find it very bizarre when the church says gays will destroy the sanctity of marriage with their immorality and then they complain when anybody says anything bad against them. It's deplorable that a man and woman can get married for a mere matter of hours in Vegas and not destroy the sanctity of marriage, but as soon as it's too people of the same gender it's political correctness gone mad and just one step away from us all marrying our cats.

*sigh*