A thread about protesters

ManCitizens. said:
Do you see the irony?
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There is no irony, I wasn’t giving the protestors a free pass, I just don’t assume that all protestors are scum of the earth who should have their skulls cracked open or women should be punched in the face.

Are some people going to cause trouble at a protest? Course they fucking are. Should the police deal with and contain trouble? Yes. Does this involve wading in, indiscriminately cracking heads and punching women in the face. No it fucking doesn‘t.

It is not the role of the police to act as an arm of the state and assault its citizens. Leave that to China and Russia. Or maybe France (they also like a ruck).

Nor should we be cheerleading police violence, but asking was the police action necessary, proportionate and can we verify police injuries actually occurred before blindly parroting that they did via a gullible media.
 
Chippy_boy said:
And @Ric: I forgot to add, although the bill does not give the police arbitrary powers, so what if it did? Do you regard them as the enemy, a body with a political agenda who will abuse its power for nefarious ends? I don't. I think they try to stop crime, prevent criminals and criminal activity and protect the public.
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No, I don’t regard the police as “the enemy”. I’m not sure why you say that. My concern is that vague guidelines about things like “annoyance” and “noise” will enable the police, perhaps at the behest of the Home Secretary, to stop legitimate protests. The libertarian right should be just as concerned about this as those on the left.
 
Blue Mist said:
You do seem to have a hatred of the police and I do wonder why.
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That must be because you haven't frequented all threads, the hatred of the police goes hand in hand with an admitted hope that this country suffers, so it's a pointless exchange, just like all the others really.
 
Ric said:
No, I don’t regard the police as “the enemy”. I’m not sure why you say that. My concern is that vague guidelines about things like “annoyance” and “noise” will enable the police, perhaps at the behest of the Home Secretary, to stop legitimate protests. The libertarian right should be just as concerned about this as those on the left.
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Everyone should be concerned about it, no matter what their political slant. My only concern about these protest is that should we accept that every protest would have to be violent to get things done?

The bill needs a rethink and by that I mean that there should be a common sense way of determining who the actual violent people are at a protest and dealing with them completely separately from the rank and file people with concerns.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Rubbish.

It's completely disingenuous to suggest that we'll lose all our rights to protest as a result of these powers. OF COURSE people will still be able to protest. *Sometimes* a protest may get dispersed which without these powers, would not be able to be dispersed. It's hardly the end of the world. The powers are intended to help the police control situations which are causing unreasonable public disturbance, risk to the general public or which may get out of hand. How can you object to that?

And @Ric: I forgot to add, although the bill does not give the police arbitrary powers, so what if it did? Do you regard them as the enemy, a body with a political agenda who will abuse its power for nefarious ends? I don't. I think they try to stop crime, prevent criminals and criminal activity and protect the public.
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Good for you. But violent and out of control police officers have injured and even killed people during protests before, then lied under oath and tried to to cover it up, both individually and institutionally. When those who are there to ‘prevent criminals and criminal activity and protect the public’ actually commit serious crimes, become criminals themselves and endanger or even end the lives of the public then what are people supposed to do? Just accept it? That is fascism
I don’t think anyone sane doubts or doesn’t appreciate the work done by the majority of decent coppers. But given its very nature - uniforms, weapons, large scale back-up at the touch of a radio button and the ability to exercise extreme power over other people - it is also a line of work that can also attract a certain “type”. And it is right and proper that they are scrutinised

en.wikipedia.org

Death of Ian Tomlinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
BobKowalski said:
There is no irony, I wasn’t giving the protestors a free pass, I just don’t assume that all protestors are scum of the earth who should have their skulls cracked open or women should be punched in the face.

Are some people going to cause trouble at a protest? Course they fucking are. Should the police deal with and contain trouble? Yes. Does this involve wading in, indiscriminately cracking heads and punching women in the face. No it fucking doesn‘t.

It is not the role of the police to act as an arm of the state and assault its citizens. Leave that to China and Russia. Or maybe France (they also like a ruck).

Nor should we be cheerleading police violence, but asking was the police action necessary, proportionate and can we verify police injuries actually occurred before blindly parroting that they did via a gullible media.
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You realise the police aren’t one big entity right?
 
BobKowalski said:
The police are trained so they do not react like a bloke on a fucking bus getting teased. They are professionals, and professionals who are sometimes armed, and call me old fashioned I don’t think we should be arming people who are prone to reacting violently when it gets a bit fractious.

Think it through for fucks sake.
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I have thought it through.
Who are we arming by the way? Are you suggesting that we will be arming all police officers in the near future?
Why do you hate the police do much?
If a cop asked me to move I would. If I didn't and after the 10th request he pushed me I wouldn't complain
 
The Police launching an unprovoked assault on the press - only a few months ago we were all appalled that was happing in Trumps America



and attacking peaceful protestors sat on the floor - we are a broken Police state

 
a shield is a defensive NOT an offensive tool. Is this contrary to Police training and a mis-use of equipment or are the Police now authorised to deliberately risk causing serious injuries
@ASPolice
 
Ric said:
No, I don’t regard the police as “the enemy”. I’m not sure why you say that. My concern is that vague guidelines about things like “annoyance” and “noise” will enable the police, perhaps at the behest of the Home Secretary, to stop legitimate protests. The libertarian right should be just as concerned about this as those on the left.
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I said it because to think this is an issue is to think that there is a malevolent force at work. If there is no malevolence, no hidden agendas, then protests don't get broken up because of what they are protesting about.

So honestly I think you're worrying over nothing. Yes, some protests will get (rightly, IMO) broken up when they are causing a public nuisance or - as with the pink boat etc - excessive disruption to peoples' lives. But that's a good thing. And the police will be accountable for their actions and no doubt if there were no public nuisance or threat then questions would rightly be asked.
 
Blue Mist said:
I have thought it through.
Who are we arming by the way? Are you suggesting that we will be arming all police officers in the near future?
Why do you hate the police do much?
If a cop asked me to move I would. If I didn't and after the 10th request he pushed me I wouldn't complain
Click to expand...

It’s the hysterical and emotional incontinence that gets me. Conversation goes from “I don’t agree with the police battering people on the grounds with their shields or punching women in the face“ to “why do you hate the police?”.

That isn’t an argument or debate. It’s the response of a toddler.
 
LongsightM13 said:
Good for you. But violent and out of control police officers have injured and even killed people during protests before, then lied under oath and tried to to cover it up, both individually and institutionally. When those who are there to ‘prevent criminals and criminal activity and protect the public’ actually commit serious crimes, become criminals themselves and endanger or even end the lives of the public then what are people supposed to do? Just accept it? That is fascism
I don’t think anyone sane doubts or doesn’t appreciate the work done by the majority of decent coppers. But given its very nature - uniforms, weapons, large scale back-up at the touch of a radio button and the ability to exercise extreme power over other people - it is also a line of work that can also attract a certain “type”. And it is right and proper that they are scrutinised

en.wikipedia.org

Death of Ian Tomlinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Agree with all of that, but honestly the above has little or nothing to do with the new Bill. There's nothing in there about less scrutiny of potentially bent coppers.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I said it because to think this is an issue is to think that there is a malevolent force at work. If there is no malevolence, no hidden agendas, then protests don't get broken up because of what they are protesting about.

So honestly I think you're worrying over nothing. Yes, some protests will get (rightly, IMO) broken up when they are causing a public nuisance or - as with the pink boat etc - excessive disruption to peoples' lives. But that's a good thing. And the police will be accountable for their actions and no doubt if there were no public nuisance or threat then questions would rightly be asked.
Click to expand...

Ah, the naivety. Quite touching.

Love the second paragraph. ‘Yes, some protests will get (rightly, IMO) broken up when they are causing a public nuisance‘. Define public nuisance, oh that’s right, that will be defined by the authorities, ie whatever we deem it to be.
 
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