Aguero 'dive'

[Citizen of Legoland]

I don't think the ref could call a foul for someone anticipating a foul. There may or may not be contact, but I hate people using that word, it's not a penalty and I'd say it would be soft if we were awarded that one. Not a dive for me either way, he strikes me as an honest player

You might not like the word but it's in the rules ...

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf

Page 6:
"tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball" (is a foul)

I agree it would be a soft penalty, but no softer than Clichy's handball or the similar handball offences not given against CSKA.

It's amazing how many times you see the man take the player before the ball and it's not given, their rules could make it a very non-contact sport, I don't like that rule too much.

I still don't think it's a foul and it's not a dive either, but I think every man and his dog can agree he's a fucking shit ref and is on par with Mark Clatternburg

You can still get the ball and catch the man and it could still be legal, but point taken. It should be remembered that the rules are there to assist the referee with his judgement and in this case he saw that Aguero dived. I like refs to let things go where he can as long as he's consistent for both teams - a bit like the first 20 mins in the Chelsea game until he inexplicably started dishing out cards left, right and centre without warning.

 

[keeeno]

Defender made no contact with the ball in either appeal but did make contact with sergio inside the area-penalty every time whether it was enough to send him to ground or not

 

[Vic]

"Tripping becomes a foul when the offender moves his leg (or any part of his body) in such a way that the player has little or no ability to avoid a fall."

This covers anticipation. The only question is was Aguero already going down before the defender made his attempt. Obviously the ref thought so.

I sourced that quote, apparently written by a fairly junior American referee who himself says "This document is not authoritative."
I've still only seen two angles, none of them anything like what the referee saw (or was told to see).

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

"Tripping becomes a foul when the offender moves his leg (or any part of his body) in such a way that the player has little or no ability to avoid a fall."

This covers anticipation. The only question is was Aguero already going down before the defender made his attempt. Obviously the ref thought so.

I sourced that quote, apparently written by a fairly junior American referee who himself says "This document is not authoritative."
I've still only seen two angles, none of them anything like what the referee saw (or was told to see).

To me it summed up the actual offence quite well, however if you refer to the FA ...

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules...ball-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx

.. they state ...

"A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:"

and one of the 7 offences is ...

"trips or attempts to trip an opponent"

So if a defender makes a challenge and does not make contact with the ball but does with the other player causing him to fall, does this constitute a trip? Obviously yes because it has become fact, the other player has categorically tripped over the defender.

Now, if the defender does not make contact with either ball or player, but has made an attempt to reach the ball, is this classed as an "attempted" trip if the other player has seen the attempt and taken evasive action to avoid contact with a view to continuing his path? This I see as "anticipation" and a foul has still been committed if the player with the ball has lost balance and fallen as a result.

However, the grey area: is a trip defined as intent on the part of the defender to trip the other player without a specific aim to reach the ball? This can surely not be true, because it results in the defender being able to make the same challenge and his or her intent differing whether contact is made or not.

 

[Silva_Spell]

my little boy Benjamin was mad about [the defeat], and my son told me I dived for the late penalty shout too. He might have a point, it was more of a coming together than a penalty, but the one earlier in the game was more of a shout. I definitely felt contact on my ankle.

 

[route46]

hmmmm so aguero thinks the first was the clear pen

 

[Vic]

"Tripping becomes a foul when the offender moves his leg (or any part of his body) in such a way that the player has little or no ability to avoid a fall."

This covers anticipation. The only question is was Aguero already going down before the defender made his attempt. Obviously the ref thought so.

I sourced that quote, apparently written by a fairly junior American referee who himself says "This document is not authoritative."
I've still only seen two angles, none of them anything like what the referee saw (or was told to see).

To me it summed up the actual offence quite well, however if you refer to the FA ...

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules...ball-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx

.. they state ...

"A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:"

and one of the 7 offences is ...

"trips or attempts to trip an opponent"

So if a defender makes a challenge and does not make contact with the ball but does with the other player causing him to fall, does this constitute a trip? Obviously yes because it has become fact, the other player has categorically tripped over the defender.

Now, if the defender does not make contact with either ball or player, but has made an attempt to reach the ball, is this classed as an "attempted" trip if the other player has seen the attempt and taken evasive action to avoid contact with a view to continuing his path? This I see as "anticipation" and a foul has still been committed if the player with the ball has lost balance and fallen as a result.

However, the grey area: is a trip defined as intent on the part of the defender to trip the other player without a specific aim to reach the ball? This can surely not be true, because it results in the defender being able to make the same challenge and his or her intent differing whether contact is made or not.

Intent isn't in the law anymore - though "attempt" might imply it. But attempt to trip can mean a free kick or penalty can be given when contact is made, the player stays on his feet though could he have gone down, and then doesn't have an advantage - or where no contact is made but the challenge is wild enough to mean the opponent loses possession, e.g. to another defender nearby.