Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[Vic]

Some Poles don't think all has been great either. The idea that the opportunity to be exploited for the wealth of others and aren't keen on the rise of the right having fought a war against it

Lost and Found: Communism Nostalgia and Communist Chic Among Poland’s Old and Young Generations - Humanity in Action

How do Poles remember communism? The year 2009 marks the twentieth anniversary of the demise of the Polish People’s Republic, and memories of the PRL can be found in the museums dedicating exhibits to the Solidarity Movement and displaying the wretchedness of life under the Soviet Union’s iron...

www.humanityinaction.org

Continuing the disparity theme, in that article is "This redistribution of wealth in the aftermath of communism was 'unfair' (Niczke, 2009)" (A variation on a theme of "we were poor, but we were happy".)

 

[Ban-jani]

The happiest societies are those where there is not great disparity of wealth. They can be capitalist.

Viral inequality: Billionaires gained $3.9tn, workers lost $3.7tn in 2020

A new Oxfam report finds the pandemic has aggravated inequality, as the world's richest have made massive gains while the world's poor have fallen further behind.

www.trtworld.com

And it's obvious that economic growth is more likely when money is in the hands of the poor, because they spend their wages rather than hoard their tax cuts. (We have exchanged the certain spending of the poor for the discretionary spending of the rich - Galbraith on Reagonomics.) It's why austerity made things worse, deliberately.

I never trust these happiness surveys. Iceland is always near the top and yet they have a suicide epidemic due to lack of sunlight.

I am not a fan of austerity, but at the same time spending and spending until the deficit is fucked isn’t a bright idea either, as ever, the best place is in the middle.

I support a ethical capitalist model, where it’s regulated in the correct ways but my focus isn’t the gap between rich and poor, it’s specifically what the poor have and how we can improve that. The poor will benefit from Jeff Bezos employing thousands and thousands of people, so his personal wealth isn’t something I care about, however I would give most of it away if I was him, I think.

Socialism definitely isn’t the answer though

 

[bluethrunthru]

Continuing the disparity theme, in that article is "This redistribution of wealth in the aftermath of communism was 'unfair' (Niczke, 2009)" (A variation on a theme of "we were poor, but we were happy".)

I think the point I was trying to illustrate was simply the glib "I/we live in a country where everyone is happy and prospers and no-one was happy in a Socialist system" when that just absolute bollox. Some people liked/preferred the regimented socialist regime where they were given goals to achieve and at least felt like everyone was allocated a fair share of the rewards. There are pro's and con's to both sides but what we are living under right now is a state being run by a mafia cartel creaming it all off for themselves under the alleged banners of capitalism and one state conservatism.

 

[Ban-jani]

I think the point I was trying to illustrate was simply the glib "I/we live in a country where everyone is happy and prospers and no-one was happy in a Socialist system" when that just absolute bollox. Some people liked/preferred the regimented socialist regime where they were given goals to achieve and at least felt like everyone was allocated a fair share of the rewards. There are pro's and con's to both sides but what we are living under right now is a state being run by a mafia cartel creaming it all off for themselves under the alleged banners of capitalism and one state conservatism.

I don’t think anyone believes that everyone here is happy but I have spoken to people who lived in socialist societies and they left because of how bad it was.

I remember speaking to an elderly polish woman about life before the collapse of the USSR and she said that wall coming down was the best thing that happened in her life.

My colleague, who I have spoken about before, is 30 odd and fled Venezuela, she absolutely despises the left and destroyed my best mate in an argument, who’s a lefty himself like a few on this forum. He’s a great lad but unfortunately a Rag and unfortunately a Corbyn supporter. He’s also pretty bright but she left him speechless, he had to concede to argument.

 

[Vic]

I don’t think anyone believes that everyone here is happy but I have spoken to people who lived in socialist societies and they left because of how bad it was.

I remember speaking to an elderly polish woman about life before the collapse of the USSR and she said that wall coming down was the best thing that happened in her life.

My colleague, who I have spoken about before, is 30 odd and fled Venezuela, she absolutely despises the left and destroyed my best mate in an argument, who’s a lefty himself like a few on this forum. He’s a great lad but unfortunately a Rag and unfortunately a Corbyn supporter. He’s also pretty bright but she left him speechless, he had to concede to argument.

I do take the point, but two people from two countries is not a huge sample, is it?

It's like asking someone who's moved to the EU because of Brexit, "What do you think of Brexit?" Unless you happen to get a citizen of Cyprus who thinks Brexit is brilliant, you'd expect people who've left the country to be more negative than those who stay.

A quick google suggests it's not that clear cut - and that capitalism in Russia sounds pretty naff. And while things look better for most (and who knows what would have happened over the last 30 years if the west hadn't supported the ousting of reformer Gorbachev), there's a majority who say health care was better under Communism (including presumably those too young to remember). I'm guessing that fairness may be key to that stat.

European Public Opinion Three Decades After the Fall of Communism

Thirty years ago, a wave of optimism swept across Europe as walls and regimes fell, and long-oppressed publics embraced open societies, open markets and a more united Europe. Three decades later, a new Pew Research Center survey finds that few people in the former Eastern Bloc regret the...

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Ban-jani]

I do take the point, but two people from two countries is not a huge sample, is it?

It's like asking someone who's moved to the EU because of Brexit, "What do you think of Brexit?" Unless you happen to get a citizen of Cyprus who thinks Brexit is brilliant, you'd expect people who've left the country to be more negative than those who stay.

A quick google suggests it's not that clear cut - and that capitalism in Russia sounds pretty naff. And while things look better for most (and who knows what would have happened over the last 30 years if the west hadn't supported the ousting of reformer Gorbachev), there's a majority who say health care was better under Communism (including presumably those too young to remember). I'm guessing that fairness may be key to that stat.

European Public Opinion Three Decades After the Fall of Communism

Thirty years ago, a wave of optimism swept across Europe as walls and regimes fell, and long-oppressed publics embraced open societies, open markets and a more united Europe. Three decades later, a new Pew Research Center survey finds that few people in the former Eastern Bloc regret the...

www.pewresearch.org

No you are right but that’s only two examples.

I really wish my colleague posted on here, obviously a Venezuelan woman with no interest in football wouldn’t ever post on Bluemoon lol but you could pick the most intelligent socialist on the forum and she’d have them for breakfast.

Her knowledge of it as an ideology would, even though I no longer have time for the guy he is intelligent, destroy anything Rascal could post.

Regarding your post. It’s a very good point, I was reading about Romania recently and the shift from socialism to capitalism and the younger generations typically loved it and those over 60 hated it. They didn’t know what to do because the state took care of everything for them. The younger lot could go out and earn more money and had prospects again, where the pensioners suddenly lost their support blanket from the state.

It’s why I support “ethical capitalism”, we need a sufficient welfare state but with a competitive private market to allow people to make money and improve their situation.

 

[blue cigar]

I don’t think anyone believes that everyone here is happy but I have spoken to people who lived in socialist societies and they left because of how bad it was.

I remember speaking to an elderly polish woman about life before the collapse of the USSR and she said that wall coming down was the best thing that happened in her life.

My colleague, who I have spoken about before, is 30 odd and fled Venezuela, she absolutely despises the left and destroyed my best mate in an argument, who’s a lefty himself like a few on this forum. He’s a great lad but unfortunately a Rag and unfortunately a Corbyn supporter. He’s also pretty bright but she left him speechless, he had to concede to argument.

Wow, great story....
I do hear a lot of people.criticise the labour left, comparing it to the USSR as if that's where we would head if ever a left leaning govt came to power, there's no reasoning with these types and nor can they see how damaging Boris trump is to this country or how many deaths his poor decisions have caused during this pandemic. It's a crying shame that people dont open their eyes, it's only bumbling lovable rogue Boris...no, the man is a calculating, self-serving bastard.

 

[Ban-jani]

Wow, great story....
I do hear a lot of people.criticise the labour left, comparing it to the USSR as if that's where we would head if ever a left leaning govt came to power, there's no reasoning with these types and nor can they see how damaging Boris trump is to this country or how many deaths his poor decisions have caused during this pandemic. It's a crying shame that people dont open their eyes, it's only bumbling lovable rogue Boris...no, the man is a calculating, self-serving bastard.

You make the mistake of thinking that the alternative to socialism is Boris, it’s not. Although his Jan 2020 budget, had the highest spending since Labour were last in.

Anyway, the story was condensed, I am not saying we’d suddenly turn into the USSR or Venezuela if Corbyn got in but he talked up about administrations, in fact he allied with the Venezuelan leadership.


I feel my economic position is entirely reasonable, I support capitalism as an overall system but want some socialism sprinkled on to it, with the poor being looked after and healthcare free at the point of use.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable and I’d even trade economic policy to the left, if they implemented some conservative social policies.

Your problem is you’re an old boy socialist, who is “my way or the highway”.

The “only if people opened their eyes” point is funny, have you ever thought people just disagree with you?

I understand why you want socialism, on paper it’s a much nicer ideology than capitalism but I just don’t think it’s practical as the main policy in government, the evidence shows it doesn’t work.

 

[mat]

Dumped Trump for Baby Trump.

 

[bluethrunthru]

such a frenzied rant he forgot who was who and called the Speaker "Mr Crisis" - what a bell