Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[Didsbury Dave]

Here’s the problem as I see it. There is no problem with the govt printing money to get us through this, because everyone else is doing the same, and everyone knows why we’re all printing money for all we’re worth.

There will come a point in the summer however when nations start to trade their way out of difficulty. And once they do that, our ability to carry on printing money just the same pretty much ends, because if we are just printing money when nobody else is, that’s when you get hyper inflation. So when everyone else - who is leaving lockdown earlier than we are - stop printing money, we really need to stop too. When that happens, and the government can’t prop the economy up any further with freshly printed cash, we will have to trade our way out of trouble like everyone else.

Our ability to do that is limited for two reasons. One, we have chosen to walk away from unlimited access to the largest trading bloc in the world. Two, we have made our economy so heavily dependent on the services sector that we will be hurt by what is now inevitable, namely that a lot of manufacturers will be cutting back on costs that involve reliance on the services sector. (Eg sending executives on business trips will be replaced by more zoom meetings, so less business for hotels, restaurants etc).

Now the civil service isn’t stupid. They know we face a massiveLy difficult period ahead, and we’re going to need trade deals. Far more, in fact, than the EU and the USA will do. So we are negotiating from positions of clear weakness, we know that and they know that. To them, a trade deal with the UK will be welcome, but not essential. We, by contrast, are pretty much fucked without FTAs. So I suspect we will end up doing a deal with the EU, for instance, rather than leave on WTO terms, but it won’t be pretty.

TLDR: they’ve got us by the balls. The long term damage to our economy is structural.

I agree with every word. I can see this coming down the track. It always was going to do really but the virus has magnified things massively. We need to grow this economy at exactly the time we’ve hobbled it.

But you and I don’t matter, mate. There are people reading this exchange who have no concept whatsoever on how the next 12-18months will affect their life, their careers and their public services. They cannot make the connection between proximity and trade.
A recession is a newspaper headline to them as long as they keep their jobs.

They have their Brexit government now and to
admit that they are incompetent is to admit that they were duped. They aren’t going to
do it. They’ll double down on every lie and be quite happy being gaslit for years.

 

[Proy]

I agree with every word. I can see this coming down the track. It always was going to do really but the virus has magnified things massively. We need to grow this economy at exactly the time we’ve hobbled it.

But you and I don’t matter, mate. There are people reading this exchange who have no concept whatsoever on how the next 12-18months will affect their life, their careers and their public services. They cannot make the connection between proximity and trade.
A recession is a newspaper headline to them as long as they keep their jobs.

They have their Brexit government now and to
admit that they are incompetent is to admit that they were duped. They aren’t going to
do it. They’ll double down on every lie and be quite happy being gaslit for years.

They wouldn’t know what duped meant. Not clever enough.

They could only see ‘immigration’. They don’t understand that, either.

The take away from that word pretty much comes down to outright racism. That is the bottom line perception of it. That it must now mean we can stop ‘certain groups of people’ coming into the country. It clearly doesn’t and it driven large parts of the voting.

We will stop printing money because we will have to, but I’m fucked if I know the way out because we are getting no trade deals that will aid it in the capacity it will need.

A new trade agreement with the EU had better be spectacular otherwise the GBP drops, it’s dearer to import and that of course falls on the consumer. We will need to do a fuck tonne of exporting to bring the pound back, without any tariffs or quotas.

Unemployment will rise and until it happens to those who only see a headline, then it’s just business as usual with a blissful unawareness of what leaving will actually do, now it’s combined with a fucking pandemic.

 

[Proy]

Here’s the problem as I see it. There is no problem with the govt printing money to get us through this, because everyone else is doing the same, and everyone knows why we’re all printing money for all we’re worth.

There will come a point in the summer however when nations start to trade their way out of difficulty. And once they do that, our ability to carry on printing money just the same pretty much ends, because if we are just printing money when nobody else is, that’s when you get hyper inflation. So when everyone else - who is leaving lockdown earlier than we are - stop printing money, we really need to stop too. When that happens, and the government can’t prop the economy up any further with freshly printed cash, we will have to trade our way out of trouble like everyone else.

Our ability to do that is limited for two reasons. One, we have chosen to walk away from unlimited access to the largest trading bloc in the world. Two, we have made our economy so heavily dependent on the services sector that we will be hurt by what is now inevitable, namely that a lot of manufacturers will be cutting back on costs that involve reliance on the services sector. (Eg sending executives on business trips will be replaced by more zoom meetings, so less business for hotels, restaurants etc).

Now the civil service isn’t stupid. They know we face a massiveLy difficult period ahead, and we’re going to need trade deals. Far more, in fact, than the EU and the USA will do. So we are negotiating from positions of clear weakness, we know that and they know that. To them, a trade deal with the UK will be welcome, but not essential. We, by contrast, are pretty much fucked without FTAs. So I suspect we will end up doing a deal with the EU, for instance, rather than leave on WTO terms, but it won’t be pretty.

TLDR: they’ve got us by the balls. The long term damage to our economy is structural.

I can’t imagine the difficulty we will have trading if we leave on WTO terms and no deal. It would hurt the service sectors massively.

60% of our trade is in the EU bloc/countries already trading in it.

We are in the arse pocket of fucking trump.

 

[Vic]

This is one of the great tricks that tory govts have played on us over the last decade. Everything is the fault of the last labour govt, or in this case it would appear, the fault of Labour for not being in govt. Brilliant.

One of the great tricks of Tory supporters was to turn the thread into whataboutery to distract from a car crash performance by Liar Johnson.

 

[Vic]

That awful "Ah . .." moment when Johnson was surprised that people who've been here years on a "no recourse to public funds" visa might have no income.

The family the MP had in mind when he asked have been here 17 years, parents have paid tax and NI since then, not claimed benefits, and have had two children who are British citizens.

He's gone to ask Cummings if they can change the rules.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

The arrogance of both Johnson and Cummings to disregard public opinion and the refusal to answer what seem to be legitimate questions is a huge concern. This is getting closer by the day in style to the government of Donald Trump.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

To be honest he looks a dick when fielding the soft questions from his own MPs. Waffling now re a question on why 2m instead of 1m.

It'll come down to 1 metre because they cant get the app to work at 2 metres ..... please try and keep up with how these liars operate.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It’s unbelievable, we’re talking about a pandemic taking thousands of lives , it’s not about political point scoring, it’s about having a competent well informed leader who has got a grasp of facts . This fucking idiot has cost lives , he’s totally clueless, how can anybody see anything but a chancer in front of them .
He places no value on human life .

When a political party puts the economy as a greater priority than saving the lives of the population , you know that the virus isn't the problem.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The buck stops with him...................except for the case of everything he just said Dido Harding is doing then she is the one carrying the can ........which is for just about everything

Time wasting now going over old material

That would be the same Dido Harding who lost her job at Talk Talk after a data breach cost the business a £60 million fine. Just the person you'd put in charge of the data stored from the track and trace app.

 

[Bill]

The best quote about him was in that article yesterday " Johnson always wanted to be PM. He always wanted to say he had been PM. Its the being PM bit in between he can't handle "

absolutely right. he's the Gordon Brown of the day.Boris thought, so did I,that with an 80 seat majority and the right people round him he could wing it. boom up pops a virus, which to be fair has rocked the world . add then a loose cannon like Cummings he's struggling.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

That would be the same Dido Harding who lost her job at Talk Talk after a data breach cost the business a £60 million fine. Just the person you'd put in charge of the data stored from the track and trace app.

Oh surprise surprise .... she's married to John Penrose the Tory MP for Weston Super Mare...Corruption at its finest.


We now officially live in a banana republic.

 

[jma]

absolutely right. he's the Gordon Brown of the day.Boris thought, so did I,that with an 80 seat majority and the right people round him he could wing it. boom up pops a virus, which to be fair has rocked the world . add then a loose cannon like Cummings he's struggling.

I cannot think of two politicians that are more polar opposite in everything than Boris Johnson and Gordon Brown.

They both made tits of themselves on an open mike (Johnson numerous times more), I suppose.

 

[Gabriel]

This is getting closer by the day in style to the government of Donald Trump.

For every step we take, POTUS takes two. ;-)

 

[The perfect fumble]

absolutely right. he's the Gordon Brown of the day.

This has got to be the silliest comparison imaginable,

I was not a great fan of Brown and the New Labour project, but regardless of Brown's shortcomings, he is an intellectual giant compared to the Billy Bunter we have in charge now.

A crisis like this would've played to Brown's strengths, he was a workaholic, everything about the detail, he would've been an ideal Prime Minister to steer this country through this crisis.

 

[west didsblue]

absolutely right. he's the Gordon Brown of the day.Boris thought, so did I,that with an 80 seat majority and the right people round him he could wing it. boom up pops a virus, which to be fair has rocked the world . add then a loose cannon like Cummings he's struggling.

Struggling is a huge understatement. He’s totally out of his depth. By far the most inept leader in Europe and second only to Trump in the world.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Had to chuckle at Janey Godley take on the appearance of Johnson at yesterday’s Liaison committee. And before anyone has a strop, she takes the piss out of Sturgeon on a daily basis.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

This has got to be the silliest comparison imaginable,

I was not a great fan of Brown and the New Labour project, but regardless of Brown's shortcomings, he is an intellectual giant compared to the Billy Bunter we have in charge now.

A crisis like this would've played to Brown's strengths, he was a workaholic, everything about the detail, he would've been an ideal Prime Minister to steer this country through this crisis.

I agree with your comparison.

I always thought that Brown wanted to run the country, without wanting to deal with the fluffy PR side of the job.
Johnson wants to be PM, and doesn't seem to have any idea how to delegate the actually running part or capability to understand what is important.

(Cameron struck me as wanting to be PM, but having some idea how to delegate the actually running part such that he was reasonably clued up on things.)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I agree with your comparison.

I always thought that Brown wanted to run the country, without wanting to deal with the fluffy PR side of the job.
Johnson wants to be PM, and doesn't seem to have any idea how to delegate the actually running part or capability to understand what is important.

(Cameron struck me as wanting to be PM, but having some idea how to delegate the actually running part such that he was reasonably clued up on things.)

Funnily enough I was thinking about Brown last night. I was mulling over in my head the PMs of my 50 years on the planet. This one is the only one I’ve been ashamed of. There have been PMs whose policies I’ve profoundly disagreed with, like Thatcher, and PMs who I’ve disliked as personalities. like Brown and May. But never one who filled me with shame and anger. I respected all of those PMs in their different ways as leaders. The likes of Cameron look like intellectual giants compared to this clown. He makes me ashamed to be British because he blagged his way to the job and we let him.

There’s a serious debate to be had about why this happened to both us and the USA at the same time of course.

 

[Bill]

This has got to be the silliest comparison imaginable,

I was not a great fan of Brown and the New Labour project, but regardless of Brown's shortcomings, he is an intellectual giant compared to the Billy Bunter we have in charge now.

A crisis like this would've played to Brown's strengths, he was a workaholic, everything about the detail, he would've been an ideal Prime Minister to steer this country through this crisis.

rubbish.he was a power hungry mad man.Tony threw him under a bus.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Funnily enough I was thinking about Brown last night. I was mulling over in my head the PMs of my 50 years on the planet. This one is the only one I’ve been ashamed of. There have been PMs whose policies I’ve profoundly disagreed with, like Thatcher, and PMs who I’ve disliked as personalities. like Brown and May. But never one who filled me with shame and anger. I respected all of those PMs in their different ways as leaders. The likes of Cameron look like intellectual giants compared to this clown. He makes me ashamed to be British because he blagged his way to the job and we let him.

There’s a serious debate to be had about why this happened to both us and the USA at the same time of course.

It’s just a spooky coincidence mate.