Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Saddleworth2]

FFS! I described exactly how thet are alike in the post you quoted. I notice you didn't challenge any of those similarities but rather responded with a bunch of irrelevant comparisons.

Let me add to your irrelevant comparison: One is a man and the other woman. One is old and the other young. One has Red hair and the other black. One can dance and the other is a douche...

That said, none of the above comparison nor the ones you made are relevant. Now if you can challenge the claims original made perhaps you'd have something worth discussing.

And enough with the moral preening, it's boring.

Moral preening? Love it, will have to remember that.
You claim AOC is a charlatan. How so? She seems to be faithful to the principles that got her elected in the first place.

 

[Dax777]

Moral preening? Love it, will have to remember that.
You claim AOC is a charlatan. How so? She seems to be faithful to the principles that got her elected in the first place.

I didn't claim she was a charlatan. More so I believe she is often not very well versed about the issues she attempts to discuss. And this isn't an eloquence issue either. She uses fallacious arguments and makes factually false claims, you know kind of like Trump, but her supporter ignore them or write them off as just being inexperienced. Again, just like Trump supporters do when he lies of drops another gaffe.

Here is an article from CNN documenting one of those instances.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-facts/index.html

And there are many others. I've never claimed she wasn't faithful to her 'principles.' However, how well she understands those principles and how truthful she is in making factual claims are a total different story.

But it's not that she makes these bogus claims that is the issue. It's that her supporters excuse it all the time. Again exactly like Trump supporters excuse his bogus claims.

Hence my original claim that AOC and Trump are the same in the way their supporters emotionally react to them.

Neither is particularly knowledgeable about the issues they discuss and often get caught lying, exaggerating or just showing a clear misunderstanding of facts, and ideas. And both respond to this by doubling down.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I didn't claim she was a charlatan. More so I believe she is often not very well versed about the issues she attempts to discuss. And this isn't an eloquence issue either. She uses fallacious arguments and makes factually false claims, you know kind of like Trump, but her supporter ignore them or write them off as just being inexperienced. Again, just like Trump supporters do when he lies of drops another gaffe.

Here is an article from CNN documenting one of those instances.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-facts/index.html

And there are many others. I've never claimed she wasn't faithful to her 'principles.' However, how well she understands those principles and how truthful she is in making factual claims are a total different story.

But it's not that she makes these bogus claims that is the issue. It's that her supporters excuse it all the time. Again exactly like Trump supporters excuse his bogus claims.

Hence my original claim that AOC and Trump are the same in the way their supporters emotionally react to them.

Neither is particularly knowledgeable about the issues they discuss and often get caught lying, exaggerating or just showing a clear misunderstanding of facts, and ideas. And both respond to this by doubling down.

You did indeed claim she was a charlatan mate 'both of these chartalans', but thanks for posting that article which I thought was reasonable and balanced. Ok, she isn't perfect with the facts and I guess at the end its what you believe about her motivation and character. I agree with her fundamental objectives whilst I find Trump in both word,deed and character totally abhorrent. You claim she is stupid, again I don't see that at all. What i see is a charismatic young women operating very effectively in a world that is totally alien to her background and upbringing. She is living by her wits. Now I know that intelligence does not equal knowledge and there may well be gaps in that. Its hardly surprising that every word is scrutinised and analysed and she will make gaffs. I can forgive that as long as she remains honest about it.

I can see what you are trying to compare but I still think you were wrong to do so because the underlying characters, motivations and end objectives are just so, so different. Just my opinion mate.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Oh dear, "terrifying" Ocasio-Cortez is at it again...

You have to love her passion and rhetoric. Can she turn round USA politics when Obama couldn't'? We will see.

 

[Dax777]

You did indeed claim she was a charlatan mate 'both of these chartalans', but thanks for posting that article which I thought was reasonable and balanced. Ok, she isn't perfect with the facts and I guess at the end its what you believe about her motivation and character. I agree with her fundamental objectives whilst I find Trump in both word,deed and character totally abhorrent. You claim she is stupid, again I don't see that at all. What i see is a charismatic young women operating very effectively in a world that is totally alien to her background and upbringing. She is living by her wits. Now I know that intelligence does not equal knowledge and there may well be gaps in that. Its hardly surprising that every word is scrutinised and analysed and she will make gaffs. I can forgive that as long as she remains honest about it.

I can see what you are trying to compare but I still think you were wrong to do so because the underlying characters, motivations and end objectives are just so, so different. Just my opinion mate.

My apologies. Didn't realize I called them charlatans. That was rude of me. Must have been in a foul mood.

I appreciate that you agree with her and disagree with Trump. But I wasn't particularly comparing their Politics more so their effects on supporters. I chuckled when you wrote "I can forgive her as long as X." I have seen those very words from Trump supporters in similar discussions to this one.

As for her intelligence, I can't speak to that generally, but her grasp of lots of basic issues is just lacking. And to say every word is being nitpicked is unfair. She simply will not interview with a hostile interviewer. Watching Chris Hayes not ask the most basic follow up question when she says something inane is like watching Trump on Hannity. Infuriating in both cases.

I can't stand pandering either. And she does it better than most. If it's not 'talking black' when around black folks (this for me is a no no), it's doing the cutesy little girl act, where she uses child like language to make a serious point that is wrong.

Like I said earlier, lots of these are not just gaffs, some seem intentional. If you repeat something false multiple times for emotional effect. It's really not a gaffe or a function of inexperience. It's a calculated move.

Anyway let me not bore you. I reckon you are a fan and think she's impressive despite her flaws. I think she is mostly an opportunist who rode in on a wave. And has since been annoited the face of the far left.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I didn't claim she was a charlatan. More so I believe she is often not very well versed about the issues she attempts to discuss. And this isn't an eloquence issue either. She uses fallacious arguments and makes factually false claims, you know kind of like Trump, but her supporter ignore them or write them off as just being inexperienced. Again, just like Trump supporters do when he lies of drops another gaffe.

Here is an article from CNN documenting one of those instances.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-facts/index.html

And there are many others. I've never claimed she wasn't faithful to her 'principles.' However, how well she understands those principles and how truthful she is in making factual claims are a total different story.

But it's not that she makes these bogus claims that is the issue. It's that her supporters excuse it all the time. Again exactly like Trump supporters excuse his bogus claims.

Hence my original claim that AOC and Trump are the same in the way their supporters emotionally react to them.

Neither is particularly knowledgeable about the issues they discuss and often get caught lying, exaggerating or just showing a clear misunderstanding of facts, and ideas. And both respond to this by doubling down.

Given her background, AOC knows and understands many of the issues that affect the majority of US voters.

Trump has lived his entire life without consequence, and therefor hasn't the first clue about the plight of people living pay cheque to pay cheque.

 

[Saddleworth2]

My apologies. Didn't realize I called them charlatans. That was rude of me. Must have been in a foul mood.

I appreciate that you agree with her and disagree with Trump. But I wasn't particularly comparing their Politics more so their effects on supporters. I chuckled when you wrote "I can forgive her as long as X." I have seen those very words from Trump supporters in similar discussions to this one.

As for her intelligence, I can't speak to that generally, but her grasp of lots of basic issues is just lacking. And to say every word is being nitpicked is unfair. She simply will not interview with a hostile interviewer. Watching Chris Hayes not ask the most basic follow up question when she says something inane is like watching Trump on Hannity. Infuriating in both cases.

I can't stand pandering either. And she does it better than most. If it's not 'talking black' when around black folks (this for me is a no no), it's doing the cutesy little girl act, where she uses child like language to make a serious point that is wrong.

Like I said earlier, lots of these are not just gaffs, some seem intentional. If you repeat something false multiple times for emotional effect. It's really not a gaffe or a function of inexperience. It's a calculated move.

Anyway let me not bore you. I reckon you are a fan and think she's impressive despite her flaws. I think she is mostly an opportunist who rode in on a wave. And has since been annoited the face of the far left.

I wouldn’t call myself a fan. Just someone who is totally pissed with politics and watches the Netflix documentary. If only all opportunists were able to say one day, I’m only a waitress but I think I should run and be elected to Congress on a socially inclusive ticket. Have a good day mate.

 

[Dax777]

I wouldn’t call myself a fan. Just someone who is totally pissed with politics and watches the Netflix documentary. If only all opportunists were able to say one day, I’m only a waitress but I think I should run and be elected to Congress on a socially inclusive ticket. Have a good day mate.

Appreciate the chat man. Have a good week.

 

[Dax777]

Given her background, AOC knows and understands many of the issues that affect the majority of US voters.

Trump has lived his entire life without consequence, and therefor hasn't the first clue about the plight of people living pay cheque to pay cheque.

1) You'd have to tell me what this background is that is 'given'

2) Why should I assume such a background automatically imbues her ( or anyone else) with knowledge of the issues?

3) And even if I were to agree to the unproven above, knowing the issues doesn't in anyway suppose you know what measures will alleviate those problems.

It's on this critical and all important 3rd point that I try to settle in and discuss the specifics. If you were so inclined to.

 

[Bigga]

1) You'd have to tell me what this background is that is 'given'

2) Why should I assume such a background automatically imbues her ( or anyone else) with knowledge of the issues?

3) And even if I were to agree to the unproven above, knowing the issues doesn't in anyway suppose you know what measures will alleviate those problems.

It's on this critical and all important 3rd point that I try to settle in and discuss the specifics. If you were so inclined to.

I'd like to jump in, at this point.

Politicians with a grasp of knowledge of what's what, are far and few between, that get to run the country. In my lifetime Bush Sr, Clinton and Obama are some of the very few that managed that and only two of those were brilliant orators, capable of convincing a set of people that their way was the right way and the rest only needed the latter skill.

AOC has the latter skill in abundance. Whilst she, clearly, has the intellect, she has a gap of knowledge of how the shark tank of Washington works and that is what we're seeing when she makes mistakes.

But, as all good individuals know, they need a better team behind them.

She has that with the 'Justice Democrats', Sen. Sanders, Rep. Ro Khanna and other Progressives in her corner.