All rather amazing re Mancini's 'caution'

[Ntini77]

So if we finish 20th, you won't judge him ?

I'm sorry, I thought leaving out the "unless an extreme is hit" was ok, as it went without saying.

Okay then 10th ?

 

[Gelsons Dad]

The Torygraph today publishes a table with Mancini out in front. Its a goals per game and %win table. His record is 1.79 goals/game and a 50%win ratio. Hughes 1.65 and 40%, Keegan 1.30 and 31%, Sven 1.18 and 39% and Pearce 1.00 and 33%.

They've nicked the stats off here. A couple of us were using them to try and dissuade the cabal from their winging last season. It didn't work :-(

 

[fast eddie]

As long as he keeps in his safe zone of 2nd - 6th by season end, I think that a wait and see approach is needed. There's no need to jump into conclusions about managers. We have money, we have good players, we have a solid foundation; let's let our man mould the clay into something sustainable instead of immediately jumping on his back. I know it's hard as everybody wants us to do well RIGHT NOW, but there's very few managers in the world who have ever just come in and stormed it. Even Mourinho had to adjust in Inter.

You'd accept 6th? That'd be a place down from last season!

Mancini above everyone would be pissed off with 6th and I'm almost certain that he'd be given the push.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

link pls

I read the real paper -Sports section page 8!<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:29 pm --<br /><br />

The Torygraph today publishes a table with Mancini out in front. Its a goals per game and %win table. His record is 1.79 goals/game and a 50%win ratio. Hughes 1.65 and 40%, Keegan 1.30 and 31%, Sven 1.18 and 39% and Pearce 1.00 and 33%.

Did they also publish the amount of money spent by each manager and the quality of team they inherited?

Good God, no - they're a newspaper. When did we ever get balance from these people?

 

[Marvin]

So if we finish 20th, you won't judge him ?

I'm sorry, I thought leaving out the "unless an extreme is hit" was ok, as it went without saying.

As long as he keeps in his safe zone of 2nd - 6th by season end, I think that a wait and see approach is needed. There's no need to jump into conclusions about managers. We have money, we have good players, we have a solid foundation; let's let our man mould the clay into something sustainable instead of immediately jumping on his back. I know it's hard as everybody wants us to do well RIGHT NOW, but there's very few managers in the world who have ever just come in and stormed it. Even Mourinho had to adjust in Inter.

And Mourinho's Real Madrid drew yesterday - a team who finished 2nd last season and who have spent heavily again. Seen enough in our performances so far to be encouraged for the future

 

[Damocles]

I'd accept 6th yes. I wouldn't be happy with it, but I also don't think that a bad season means sacking a manager who has good potential. Football keeps getting condensed into tinier and tinier views. Changes to any organisation, especially a performance driven sporting one like a football team takes time which everybody seems to recognise and nobody seems to put a figure on.

There's a very, very top class of manager who seems to work wonders immediately. Capello and Mourinho jump to mind, they're short term people - the longer they stay at a club, the worst the results become (though always to a high minimum standard). After this, there are a class of manager that takes a year or two to really build things. We can include Ferguson, Wenger and perhaps our very own Mancini in this. Each of them struggle at the start but eventually conquer the club with their style of football which goes on to great rewards. Mancini's Inter won 3 Seria A's, year after year, whilst getting further and further in the Champions League. It's absolutely no surprise to me that the core of his team went on to win it last year. These are the long terms guys who get you success.

People seem to want the former type of manager - the instant successes. This means that a coach will come into the club, buy a shitload of names, win us the CL then bugger off. This leaves us in a problem - we build a reputation in the game for Madrid type of club with chopping and changing ruthlessly. This is why Wenger will never go to Madrid in a billion years. He is building something with a particular plan at Arsenal, there is no reason to throw that away for a momentary piece of glory with Madrid. Instead, he will stick the course. He'll have good seasons and bad seasons but he knows that his plan is working and Arsenal are becoming more and more of a threat. They would have achieved the holy grail of winning the league using lots of youth players in a system that produces lots of players over time. Wenger will build Arsenal for years to come, just as Cruyff built Barca for years to come.

I don't want the first type of manager as I want a dynasty. Basically, I prefer a marriage with Keira Knightly rather than a one night stand with Jordan.

Due to this, you need to be absolutely sure that you have the right person. Mancini's former record tells me that we have a young manager, who has never finished outside of Europe and has won trophies wherever he has been. Secondly, Mancini plays a very distinct and successful type of football; it's very tactical, at times it is beautiful, and it mixes great passing with great pressing. Thirdly, the man is friends with both the Sheikh and Khaldoon and was one of their football advisors during the takeover so we can expect a good working atmosphere from the club between different levels of management. Fourthly, I think that he's well educated tactically following the great schools of football and his lectures or interviews on the game are always interesting. Fifthly, he's managed very difficult players before in Ibra and Balo successfully, while handling the pressure of Inter (which most people will tell you used to be a death knell). Sixthly, as his tenure here shows, he's more than willing to give youth a chance when needed which will help us in the future. Just as with Balo, he knows how to bring players through.

So, I'm convinced that we have a good manager due to this, and the improvements in organisation and tactics that I have seen since he came here. As he ages, he will also only get better. With this in my mind as proven, we also know that due to our position as a club willing to spend, he knows that if he wins us something he will be a legend in our eyes. He will be happy here and we will worship him.

He has a very rare opportunity as do we. We have (with the exception of Guardiola), the most decorated young manager in the game, who is friends with our board, who has a near unlimited budget. He knows that Khaldoon and the Sheikh will give him the opportunity to build himself a dynasty and become one of the great names in football as a manager just as he was as a player. People are very rarely given this chance, so he will know how valuable it is.

The deal suits all sides. We have an opportunity to build something together, both City and Mancini, to raise themselves to the top table of the game (though Mancini was already there) and long term, sustained plan of how to run our club.

I'm not willing to throw all that away because of a single bad season.

 

[Nelly's Left Foot]

IF we finish 6th there will be a large % of City fans wanting Mancini's head so it's a good job that won't happen.

 

[Bill]

Pearce averaged a goal a game...!?!?!?!?!? No fucking way, that just proves that that's completely inaccurate...;- )

Seriously though - Mancini's only been in charge for half a season whereas all the others are being judged over a much longer period of time.

Definitely this. Mancini is still unjudgeable until the end of the season, at least.

Not true, he's a genius apparently.

 

[macmanson]

I'd accept 6th yes. I wouldn't be happy with it, but I also don't think that a bad season means sacking a manager who has good potential. Football keeps getting condensed into tinier and tinier views. Changes to any organisation, especially a performance driven sporting one like a football team takes time which everybody seems to recognise and nobody seems to put a figure on.

There's a very, very top class of manager who seems to work wonders immediately. Capello and Mourinho jump to mind, they're short term people - the longer they stay at a club, the worst the results become (though always to a high minimum standard). After this, there are a class of manager that takes a year or two to really build things. We can include Ferguson, Wenger and perhaps our very own Mancini in this. Each of them struggle at the start but eventually conquer the club with their style of football which goes on to great rewards. Mancini's Inter won 3 Seria A's, year after year, whilst getting further and further in the Champions League. It's absolutely no surprise to me that the core of his team went on to win it last year. These are the long terms guys who get you success.

People seem to want the former type of manager - the instant successes. This means that a coach will come into the club, buy a shitload of names, win us the CL then bugger off. This leaves us in a problem - we build a reputation in the game for Madrid type of club with chopping and changing ruthlessly. This is why Wenger will never go to Madrid in a billion years. He is building something with a particular plan at Arsenal, there is no reason to throw that away for a momentary piece of glory with Madrid. Instead, he will stick the course. He'll have good seasons and bad seasons but he knows that his plan is working and Arsenal are becoming more and more of a threat. They would have achieved the holy grail of winning the league using lots of youth players in a system that produces lots of players over time. Wenger will build Arsenal for years to come, just as Cruyff built Barca for years to come.

I don't want the first type of manager as I want a dynasty. Basically, I prefer a marriage with Keira Knightly rather than a one night stand with Jordan.

Due to this, you need to be absolutely sure that you have the right person. Mancini's former record tells me that we have a young manager, who has never finished outside of Europe and has won trophies wherever he has been. Secondly, Mancini plays a very distinct and successful type of football; it's very tactical, at times it is beautiful, and it mixes great passing with great pressing. Thirdly, the man is friends with both the Sheikh and Khaldoon and was one of their football advisors during the takeover so we can expect a good working atmosphere from the club between different levels of management. Fourthly, I think that he's well educated tactically following the great schools of football and his lectures or interviews on the game are always interesting. Fifthly, he's managed very difficult players before in Ibra and Balo successfully, while handling the pressure of Inter (which most people will tell you used to be a death knell). Sixthly, as his tenure here shows, he's more than willing to give youth a chance when needed which will help us in the future. Just as with Balo, he knows how to bring players through.

So, I'm convinced that we have a good manager due to this, and the improvements in organisation and tactics that I have seen since he came here. As he ages, he will also only get better. With this in my mind as proven, we also know that due to our position as a club willing to spend, he knows that if he wins us something he will be a legend in our eyes. He will be happy here and we will worship him.

He has a very rare opportunity as do we. We have (with the exception of Guardiola), the most decorated young manager in the game, who is friends with our board, who has a near unlimited budget. He knows that Khaldoon and the Sheikh will give him the opportunity to build himself a dynasty and become one of the great names in football as a manager just as he was as a player. People are very rarely given this chance, so he will know how valuable it is.

The deal suits all sides. We have an opportunity to build something together, both City and Mancini, to raise themselves to the top table of the game (though Mancini was already there) and long term, sustained plan of how to run our club.

I'm not willing to throw all that away because of a single bad season.

I think the message of your post is bang on. I'd rather give someone the time to develop something long term than have a quick fix manager. While I'm not as convinced as you of Mancini, I think he should be given the time to do what he needs to do as I think he will be capable of making us a sustained CL calibre team. To sack him at this point so close to the financial rules kicking in would just be pointless. Another manager and more turnover would make it very hard to even get into the competitions we want to because of financial issues.

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

Incredible. Mancini with European Cup and World Cup winners in his side has scored more goals than Pearce with Corradi and Bradley Wright-Phillips or Sven with Benjani and Vassell.

This ^

made me laugh anyway.