An Open Letter to Mr Osborne

[ElanJo]

who are you - god?

Just no where near a geek, in any way shape or form.

-- Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:39 pm --

@TB
No worries mate. As I said to you in person, I am not, nor ever have been a tory, nor ever voted for them. I simply dislike populist generalisations, especially when they involve snobbery.

But then again, I am a geek with no life as you know from meeting weedy little me and my non-model other half.

(ah shit, slipped into dick waving at the end there) ;-)

After the age of 25, only a geek gets offended by being called a geek

 

[sweynforkbeard]

Guys like you amaze me, the last hundred odd years has seen the decline of the UK from a mighty imperial and industrial empire, to where we are today, a 2nd division power on the fringes of Europe. That hundred odd years was punctuated by two world wars, both against right wing military states and two major recessions/depressions brought about rampant unregulated capitalism. During this time the Tories have been in government considerably longer than Labour by a sizeable margin.

But it's all the fault of socialism, it's the unions it's the welfare state.

Go to Germany, her welfare system is far more generous than ours, in Germany trade unionists sit on the board of medium to large businesses and more German workers are members of trade unions than here. Our welfare system is one of the most miserly in Europe, we have the worst social mobility, the greatest income inequality and the worst geographical spread of that wealth, worse even than Italy.

Yet it's all the fault of socialism.

I get irritated with guys like you not because I think I'm right and I know your wrong, but because at least I try to think these things through and you can't be bothered.

Glad I amaze you. Do you expect to change my opinion out of interest?

Opinion based on a rational analysis is always open to change, I've changed my opinion many times when faced with a strong and robust argument. Nothing you've posted indicates that your opinions are based on anything very much, so they are impossible to refute.

That's the beauty of ignorance, it is its own best defence.

What have Hart, Richards/Zabaletta, Kompany, Lescott and Clichy to do with this?

 

[ElanJo]

Anyway not rowing - dont know you. Just try and be a bit more humble. Night!

I dislike snobs of every variety is all. As I said all along (from my first post) I don't disagree with Mike's views on economics fwiw. He simply refers to anyone on the centre right as being toffs in the pejorative which dilutes his point.

It is a fact wether you like it or not that the economics of the right are the ones the toffs love. They want to consolidate there position in society and i cant blame them for that at all.

I said a few months ago, i think neo-liberal economics is failing and it is, however you look at it, it is crumbling before us. The market should never be free of state control, it has vitually riuined our economy and as ever the man on the street pays for there crass indulgincies

How does a free market (not that ours has been free) make the man on the street pay?

 

[The perfect fumble]

The German economy is run along capitalistic lines. To suggest that it is a socialist society, as your post appears to, is absurd.

The only thing that's absurd is your post.

To you, the likes of Deutschebank, E.ON, VW/Porche, Siemens and Allianz Insurance may be the very embodiment of the means of production being in public ownership and part of a socialist society, but to me they demonstrate the apotheosis of the capitalistic ideal.

Innovative, creative, producing the very best products to the highest standards and a model of capitalism that demonstrates that the rewards can be fairly shared around.

But capitalistic they are. They have shareholders, pay dividends, acquire other companies - sometimes aggressively, take risks and occasionally act in an unethical way. To me Germany is all that a capitalistic society can be, if it puts it's mind to it, but it remains just that: a system that is rooted in capitalism and the free market, as is the EU.

It displays none of the characteristics that you could reasonably ascribe to being socialist. I think because you admire it as a society you seek to give it a label which suits your Weltanschauung :-)

I agree.

The fact that a successful capitalist economy like Germany can do all these things and yet not be remotely socialist was the point I was making.

The idea that anyone could suggest that Germany is a socialist society would not just be absurd, it would be deranged.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Glad I amaze you. Do you expect to change my opinion out of interest?

Opinion based on a rational analysis is always open to change, I've changed my opinion many times when faced with a strong and robust argument. Nothing you've posted indicates that your opinions are based on anything very much, so they are impossible to refute.

That's the beauty of ignorance, it is its own best defence.

What have Hart, Richards/Zabaletta, Kompany, Lescott and Clichy to do with this?

They are all part of a clandestine Anarcho-Syndicalist Collective.

 

[borassic]

who are you - god?

Just no where near a geek, in any way shape or form.

-- Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:39 pm --

@TB
No worries mate. As I said to you in person, I am not, nor ever have been a tory, nor ever voted for them. I simply dislike populist generalisations, especially when they involve snobbery.

But then again, I am a geek with no life as you know from meeting weedy little me and my non-model other half.

(ah shit, slipped into dick waving at the end there) ;-)

After the age of 25, only a geek gets offended by being called a geek

Definitely this. Don't know the guy but reading his posts down here he does strike me as being a massive nerd.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The only thing that's absurd is your post.

To you, the likes of Deutschebank, E.ON, VW/Porche, Siemens and Allianz Insurance may be the very embodiment of the means of production being in public ownership and part of a socialist society, but to me they demonstrate the apotheosis of the capitalistic ideal.

Innovative, creative, producing the very best products to the highest standards and a model of capitalism that demonstrates that the rewards can be fairly shared around.

But capitalistic they are. They have shareholders, pay dividends, acquire other companies - sometimes aggressively, take risks and occasionally act in an unethical way. To me Germany is all that a capitalistic society can be, if it puts it's mind to it, but it remains just that: a system that is rooted in capitalism and the free market, as is the EU.

It displays none of the characteristics that you could reasonably ascribe to being socialist. I think because you admire it as a society you seek to give it a label which suits your Weltanschauung :-)

I agree.

The fact that a successful capitalist economy like Germany can do all these things and yet not be remotely socialist was the point I was making.

The idea that anyone could suggest that Germany is a socialist society would not just be absurd, it would be deranged.

Apologies. I misunderstood your point.

 

[SWP's back]

Just no where near a geek, in any way shape or form.

-- Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:39 pm --

@TB
No worries mate. As I said to you in person, I am not, nor ever have been a tory, nor ever voted for them. I simply dislike populist generalisations, especially when they involve snobbery.

But then again, I am a geek with no life as you know from meeting weedy little me and my non-model other half.

(ah shit, slipped into dick waving at the end there) ;-)

After the age of 25, only a geek gets offended by being called a geek

Definitely this. Don't know the guy but reading his posts down here he does strike me as being a massive nerd.

Come to the next Bluemoon gathering and say hi.

 

[Balti]

well the ''left'' have won big in the past and doubtless will again... but then instead of delivering milk and honey they have typically done sweet fuck all to improve our lot and usually leave the country in a state of economic crisis before they are fucked off for the next lot of useless batch of self-serving career politicians who the system dictates are the only option available to us

 

[The perfect fumble]

To you, the likes of Deutschebank, E.ON, VW/Porche, Siemens and Allianz Insurance may be the very embodiment of the means of production being in public ownership and part of a socialist society, but to me they demonstrate the apotheosis of the capitalistic ideal.

Innovative, creative, producing the very best products to the highest standards and a model of capitalism that demonstrates that the rewards can be fairly shared around.

But capitalistic they are. They have shareholders, pay dividends, acquire other companies - sometimes aggressively, take risks and occasionally act in an unethical way. To me Germany is all that a capitalistic society can be, if it puts it's mind to it, but it remains just that: a system that is rooted in capitalism and the free market, as is the EU.

It displays none of the characteristics that you could reasonably ascribe to being socialist. I think because you admire it as a society you seek to give it a label which suits your Weltanschauung :-)

I agree.

The fact that a successful capitalist economy like Germany can do all these things and yet not be remotely socialist was the point I was making.

The idea that anyone could suggest that Germany is a socialist society would not just be absurd, it would be deranged.

Apologies. I misunderstood your point.

Apologies here too, for being so abrupt.

I work on the fringes of the government's industrial strategy, believe me, they don't have one.