Angelino

shak said:
You're right!

You're so right!

Quick lets get Pep on the phone. He'll be thrilled to hear it. Unbelieveable that the club and all other major European clubs missed this loop hole! Fuck me I'm glad a genius walks among us on the forum.

PLAYERS CAN BE REGISTERED TO PLAY FOR TWO CLUBS AT THE SAME TIME. LETS BY HALF OF MESSI BEFORE THE REST REALISE.

Oh no wait, you can't be because that would be fucking incompetent.
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Don't know what your on about. Players on loan aren't registered with 2 clubs only the parent club, if I own a house and lease it for a year I’m still the registered owner. The tennant has a lease.
 
blueparrot said:
It does confuse a bit reading that. My take is a player is registered with the club that owns the players contract and when loaned out the club he goes to doesn’t own the player or his registration. So even time on loan would count towards his registered club. But not at all certain it would be nice to get clarification from anyone who knows , there must be players out there that have spent a lot of time out on loan and are now either club trained or not club trained. Can’t think of any though.
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Well, what's not clear then?

1. A player has to be registered at the respective FA for the club he wants to play for (after receiving an ITC). Otherwise he is not eligible.
2. A player may only be registered with one club at a time.

We have had the same debate about Denayer back then.
Before joining Lyon summer 2018 he wasn't marked as HG on premierleague.com
after 3 loan years at Celtic and twice at Gala. Because he isn't HG.

I would gladly be convinced to be on the wrong track. But all I hear over and over again is the unproven point
that the so called 'parent club' is still holding the registration for a player loaned out to another club.
But that wouldn't be in line with current FIFA and UEFA regulations.
 
shak said:
You're right!

You're so right!

Quick lets get Pep on the phone. He'll be thrilled to hear it. Unbelieveable that the club and all other major European clubs missed this loop hole! Fuck me I'm glad a genius walks among us on the forum.

PLAYERS CAN BE REGISTERED TO PLAY FOR TWO CLUBS AT THE SAME TIME. LETS BY HALF OF MESSI BEFORE THE REST REALISE.

Oh no wait, you can't be because that would be fucking incompetent.
Click to expand...

Um you seem lost. If we actually bought Jesus that summer and then loaned him out for 3 years he would be club trained. We didn't though. You are absolutely wrong to argue that time on loan does not count as part of the three years.
 
blueparrot said:
...Players on loan aren't registered with 2 clubs only the parent club, if I own a house and lease it for a year I’m still the registered owner. The tennant has a lease.
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That's why your house wouldn't be eligible to play football under FIFA rules. It has to be registered first at an FA.

Finally I know where this 'parent club still holds registration' gossip is coming from. Real estate!?
Still a house is not a football player I thought.
 
GoldenLitefut said:
Um you seem lost. If we actually bought Jesus that summer and then loaned him out for 3 years he would be club trained. We didn't though. You are absolutely wrong to argue that time on loan does not count as part of the three years.
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Gabriel Jesus was born on 3 April 1997.
Even if he joined City July 2016, he would have been 19 already.

Not possible to be registered for 36 months with City
between aged 15 and 21 - which means between season start 2011 and end of the season he turns 21 - which was May 2018.

Maybe that's why City could easily let him stay at Palmeiras til end 2016. Np chance for becoming HG.
Agreed?
 
It's quite simple: the be considered homegrown, a player needs to be with a club for 3 full seasons between the ages of 15 and 21. Angelino was born in 1997, so he had to spend 3 seasons with City from 2012 to 2018.

According to transfermarkt:
2012-13: Deportivo La Coruna
2013-14: Man City
2014-15: Man City
2015-16: 8 months with Man City, 4 months with NYCFC
2016-17: 6 months with City, 6 months with Mallorca
2017-18: Breda

So yes he has completed 3 full season with City (barely).
 
St.Pauli support said:
Gabriel Jesus was born on 3 April 1997.
Even if he joined City July 2016, he would have been 19 already.

Not possible to be registered for 36 months with City
between aged 15 and 21 - which means between season start 2011 and end of the season he turns 21 - which was May 2018.

Maybe that's why City could easily let him stay at Palmeiras til end 2016. Np chance for becoming HG.
Agreed?
Click to expand...

Do not argue with the GoldenLiteFut bot.

It does not compute well with being told it is wrong.

It will tell you in a matter of fact way in 7 words why.

Logic isn't it's friend.
 
GoldenLitefut said:
We bought Jesus in January. This is where you are wrong.
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Thanks. And everyone else as well.

Then i Am wrong on jesus. done. When you have conflicting reports out there, its not hard to be. Many claim he was signed in August. Although i now realize he wasnt, the deal was agreed in august, but he was signed in january.

Re loans, (in general now) i'm not convinced either way tbh. They certainly Do count towards HG, IF the player is loaned within the same association or country (including scotland for the FA). Although that actually likely has nothing to do with the registration of the player, but with the fact they are still spending 3 years as HG. whether that then still counts as club trained, i dont know.
Roberts counted as home grown, after his celtic spell. And (for whoever brought it up) Denayer i believe does as well. With us he would never have needed to be listed as HG, as he was U21, but i remember when Arsenal were interested in him all the reports claimed they were getting a home grown defender.

As for players loaned out to other leagues, i guess they dont count. I can see the logic in the fifa 'one registration arguement'. but i also am not sure how it works in reality, i.e if we loan a player out, but are paying his wages, do we de-register him, and then re-register when the loan ends? it makes sense to me that the player is on the books of the club, just like a secondment. but il be honest, im no clearer on it either way, and clearly, many on here interpret it different.

What we Have also categorically established (hey two out of three isnt bad) is that Angelino (all relevant to this thread) definately IS both HG and CT either way, due to his amalgamated stop time, irrespective of any loans.
 
St.Pauli support said:
Gabriel Jesus was born on 3 April 1997.
Even if he joined City July 2016, he would have been 19 already.

Not possible to be registered for 36 months with City
between aged 15 and 21 - which means between season start 2011 and end of the season he turns 21 - which was May 2018.

Maybe that's why City could easily let him stay at Palmeiras til end 2016. Np chance for becoming HG.
Agreed?
Click to expand...

All I know is when we bought him he wasn't young enough to be HG. So sure, agreed.
 
Coatigan said:
... Re loans, (in general now) i'm not convinced either way tbh. They certainly Do count towards HG, IF the player is loaned within the same association or country (including scotland for the FA). Although that actually likely has nothing to do with the registration of the player, but with the fact they are still spending 3 years as HG. whether that then still counts as club trained, i dont know.
Roberts counted as home grown, after his celtic spell. And (for whoever brought it up) Denayer i believe does as well. With us he would never have needed to be listed as HG, as he was U21, but i remember when Arsenal were interested in him all the reports claimed they were getting a home grown defender.

As for players loaned out to other leagues, i guess they dont count. I can see the logic in the fifa 'one registration arguement'. but i also am not sure how it works in reality, i.e if we loan a player out, but are paying his wages, do we de-register him, and then re-register when the loan ends? it makes sense to me that the player is on the books of the club, just like a secondment. but il be honest, im no clearer on it either way, and clearly, many on here interpret it different.

What we Have also categorically established (hey two out of three isnt bad) is that Angelino (all relevant to this thread) definately IS both HG and CT either way, due to his amalgamated stop time, irrespective of any loans.
Click to expand...

Just a few remarks to clarify some general points.

- England+Wales FA is fully seperated from Scottish Football Association. Like Brazil, Spain or Japan.
For a permanent or temporary (loan) transfer an ITC has to be transferred because the player is moving from one FA to another.
- Loans spells outside the home club's FA logically don't count as HG. That's why Denayer is not HG.

- Pat Roberts was already HG before joining Celtic on loan twice. So that can't be a proof Scottish loan would count as English HG.

Pat is club-trained for Fulham, and academy-trained for any other club in England and Wales.
Of course loan spells at other clubs within the same FA don't add to those 36 club-trained months.

- Contract details between clubs and player (incl. wages) and player registration itself are a different kettle of fish.
Understanding how a transfer works technically isn't difficult.
Clubs have to exchange and match all data involved via the TMS system to finally transfer a FIFA ITC (International Transfer Certificate).
At loan end the registration is tranferred back = any player may be registered only at 1 club at a time.

Maybe this very short footage helps (scroll to the top on there):
https://www.fifatms.com/itms/#row1
 
George Hannah said:
Are you quite sure?
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Here is the rule. Doesn't matter what country we loan someone to. All that matters is registration. IF they are registered to us for 3 years it counts.

44.04 A "club-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.
 
George Hannah said:
Are you quite sure?
Click to expand...

Quite very :) ...based on current FIFA and UEFA regulations I have linked somewhere above.

If a player is on loan his registration is transferred to the loan club for that loan period.
If the loan club is outside the home FA, he isn't registered at his home FA for that period and it won't count as a HG loan spell.
 
St.Pauli support said:
Quite very :) ...based on current FIFA and UEFA regulations I have linked somewhere above.

If a player is on loan his registration is transferred to the loan club for that loan period.
If the loan club is outside the home FA, he isn't registered at his home FA for that period and it won't count as a HG loan spell.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Why would clubs loan young players if it scuppered the HG status. Loads of examples of City signing 17/18 year olds and then sending them on loan. If that loan didn't count they would not get 36 months.

I agree it is murky as hell but if that time didn't count they wouldn't do it. Loans must count. Surely.
 
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