Annual report 2012/13 released (merged)

[Anonymous]

Journalist on BT Sport programme after our match being a right bitter bastard about it

Mike Calvin - sat there crying laughing at his bitterness, anguish and pain. Figured he is either a rag or a gooner; obviously supports one of those teams who "do it the right way".

Loved it!

 

[moomba]

I'm wondering if suggesting the directors ofnthe clubnare engaging in "creative accounting" is slanderous.

We'll pass easy next season if we get our lawsuits sorted.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if suggesting the directors ofnthe clubnare engaging in "creative accounting" is slanderous.

We'll pass easy next season if we get our lawsuits sorted.

Suggesting? The quote was "..they will put a blue plaque up at the Etihad for services to creative accounting…"

 

[aguero93:20]

I'm wondering if suggesting the directors ofnthe clubnare engaging in "creative accounting" is slanderous.

We'll pass easy next season if we get our lawsuits sorted.

yes, yes it is, as were some other things said by various people, all of which I've emailed the club about, but...

 

[Ric]

Journalist on BT Sport programme after our match being a right bitter bastard about it

Mike Calvin - sat there crying laughing at his bitterness, anguish and pain. Figured he is either a rag or a gooner; obviously supports one of those teams who "do it the right way".

Loved it!

He could barely conceal his bitterness and resentment.

 

[Skashion]

I need to have a crash course in basic accounting. I've been trying to learn both because of my recent interest in City's accounts and because I've been treasurer for a Supporters Club branch for three years now but I still feel very dense at times (I'm just about ready to start spitting out Forest Gump quotes) after looking into Damo's question. From what I can work out, just over a billion in equity has been committed, less £662m in accumulated loss in the P&L account, to give us £435m that can still be called upon - though this is not yet in our accounts as we only have on £14m in cash at bank and in hand.

Accounting befuddles me to the extent that I've spent about fifteen minutes trying to work that out most likely to find out I'm wrong.

 

[aguero93:20]

I need to have a crash course in basic accounting. I've been trying to learn both because of my recent interest in City's accounts and because I've been treasurer for a Supporters Club branch for three years now but I still feel very dense at times (I'm just about ready to start spitting out Forest Gump quotes) after looking into Damo's question. From what I can work out, just over a billion in equity has been committed, less £662m in accumulated loss in the P&L account, to give us £435m that can still be called upon - though this is not yet in our accounts as we only have on £14m in cash at bank and in hand.

Accounting befuddles me to the extent that I've spent about fifteen minutes trying to work that out most likely to find out I'm wrong.

to be called upon is the key phrase, shares issued for 10p have 5p paid, shares issued for £1 have 25p paid.

 

[i8therags]

I am thick as pig shit with this. Can someone tell me if we are ok with the ffp or not so I can get a nights kipp for once. Thanks in advance.

 

[LevyBee76]

I am thick as pig shit with this. Can someone tell me if we are ok with the ffp or not so I can get a nights kipp for once. Thanks in advance.

Yeah we'll be fine with the ffp

 

[i8therags]

I am thick as pig shit with this. Can someone tell me if we are ok with the ffp or not so I can get a nights kipp for once. Thanks in advance.

Yeah we'll be fine with the ffp

thank you. I can dream of lifting trophies now.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Thanks for all the replys Aguero.

no problem mate, ask away I'll answer what I can, pb will have a better idea when he gets on though.

I also echo that Aguero, many thanks for your contributions. It's good to hear yours and PB's expertise, the rest of talking about accounts tend to sound about as clued up as Didsbury Dave talking about tactics!

Just one question for you, regarding "03 Operating Loss" under the "other operating income" section a figure of 47,728,000 appears, largely due to the sale of Intellectual property. This is explained further in Note 28 that this Intellectual property has been sold to City Football Marketing Ltd and City Football Services Ltd.

I assume this intellectual property is for the City branding / information systems to be used by the City Group so that is can be used for NYCFC / eventually Melbourne City FC and any other potential teams operating under the City banner.

These transactions appear under the "Related party transaction" section of the accounts. We've all discussed to death the fact that the Etihad deal is not a Related Party transaction, and I think everyone who reads yours and PB's fantastic contributions are aware of the definition, and the fact that the Etihad deal can not be scrutinised.

Obviously, these intellectual property transactions are related party transactions, and have been accounted as such by the club.

In the Consolidated Profit and Loss Account, the figure of 47,728,000 appears in the "Other operating income" section. This same column shows the Profit / Loss of ordinary activities after taxation as a 51,621,000 loss. This is the widely reported figure in the media that shows we are moving in the right direction for FFP, and should avoid facing any sanctions.

Is there any possibility FIFA could challenge this 47,728,000 "other income" figure that largely consists of related party transactions?

Could they disallow it?

Would that directly affect our bottom line?

For example, if FIFA were to deem that figure as not fair market value, and perhaps evaluated fair market value would be say 20m for the intellectual property, would that add 27,728,000 on to our net loss figure? Making the loss 79,349,000?

I may have misunderstood the whole thing, so apologies if I have. Just something that slightly concerned me when I skimmed over the accounts, so was hoping someone more clued up than me could offer some expert insight.

 

[Damocles]

FIFA couldn't challenge anything, it's UEFA that you're thinking of ;)

And all related party transactions, such as these IP sales, will be looked at by UEFA to determine fair value.

 

[Shaelumstash]

FIFA couldn't challenge anything, it's UEFA that you're thinking of ;)

And all related party transactions, such as these IP sales, will be looked at by UEFA to determine fair value.

Ha, apologies, yeh of course I meant UEFA.

So from an accounting point of view, using the example above, if UEFA determined 20m was fair value for these IP sales, would that add 27m directly on to our net loss? (in FFP terms)

 

[Damocles]

Essentially yes. They would adjust the income in their calculations and substitute their figure for the real one

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

FIFA couldn't challenge anything, it's UEFA that you're thinking of ;)

And all related party transactions, such as these IP sales, will be looked at by UEFA to determine fair value.

Ha, apologies, yeh of course I meant UEFA.

So from an accounting point of view, using the example above, if UEFA determined 20m was fair value for these IP sales, would that add 27m directly on to our net loss? (in FFP terms)

We have to declare what we believe is market value not UEFA.

 

[Shaelumstash]

FIFA couldn't challenge anything, it's UEFA that you're thinking of ;)

And all related party transactions, such as these IP sales, will be looked at by UEFA to determine fair value.

Ha, apologies, yeh of course I meant UEFA.

So from an accounting point of view, using the example above, if UEFA determined 20m was fair value for these IP sales, would that add 27m directly on to our net loss? (in FFP terms)

We have to declare what we believe is market value not UEFA.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. In theory, could UEFA deem the transactions to not be fair value? I recall there being some kind of technicality in the legislation that said UEFA could re evaluate the "fair value" of Related Party Transactions if they deemed the figure paid was excessive?

I appreciate the accounts have been audited, but I would assume a figure of 47m in related party transactions would be a bit of a red flag to anyone studying the accounts in UEFA's FFP compliance department? You'll know more than me, I'm just speculating.

On another note, have you got any idea what this IP is? Do you think it is what I've speculated in my earlier post? If so, is there any standard accounting evaluation / precedent from other clubs doing something similar that could prove the accurate "fair value" of this IP?

 

[M18CTID]

Journalist on BT Sport programme after our match being a right bitter bastard about it

Mike Calvin - sat there crying laughing at his bitterness, anguish and pain. Figured he is either a rag or a gooner; obviously supports one of those teams who "do it the right way".

Loved it!

He could barely conceal his bitterness and resentment.

Calvin's been a bitter prick ever since the takeover. This is the man that insisted it was wrong for Sheikh Mansour to buy an English football club and plough large sums of money into it, yet in a later piece he said if ADUG were looking to buy a Manchester club they should've bought FC United instead of us! This was while he was wanking himself off in the aftermath of the mini-me Rags beating Rochdale in the FA Cup, while in the same article he hoped Mancini would "crash and burn".

Fuck him the sanctimonious prick.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Has Ed been on yet? ;)<br /><br />-- Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:12 am --<br /><br />

I had it as a £52m loss once I heard the revenue figure.

Sexy fucker ;)

 

[Centurions]

How the Telegraph are reporting our annual figures :-

"Manchester City promise to meet new financial rules despite £150m losses" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-new-financial-rules-despite-150m-losses.html

You have to read the article to find out that they've decided to add the last 2 years accounts together...

-- Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:17 am --

I need to have a crash course in basic accounting. I've been trying to learn both because of my recent interest in City's accounts and because I've been treasurer for a Supporters Club branch for three years now but I still feel very dense at times (I'm just about ready to start spitting out Forest Gump quotes) after looking into Damo's question. From what I can work out, just over a billion in equity has been committed, less £662m in accumulated loss in the P&L account, to give us £435m that can still be called upon - though this is not yet in our accounts as we only have on £14m in cash at bank and in hand.

Accounting befuddles me to the extent that I've spent about fifteen minutes trying to work that out most likely to find out I'm wrong.

I've no doubt I'm missing the point here (maybe) but how do you go from a Billion in the bank minus £662m in accumulated loss to £435m left over?

 

[Skashion]

How the Telegraph are reporting our annual figures :-

"Manchester City promise to meet new financial rules despite £150m losses" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-new-financial-rules-despite-150m-losses.html

You have to read the article to find out that they've decided to add the last 2 years accounts together...

-- Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:17 am --

I need to have a crash course in basic accounting. I've been trying to learn both because of my recent interest in City's accounts and because I've been treasurer for a Supporters Club branch for three years now but I still feel very dense at times (I'm just about ready to start spitting out Forest Gump quotes) after looking into Damo's question. From what I can work out, just over a billion in equity has been committed, less £662m in accumulated loss in the P&L account, to give us £435m that can still be called upon - though this is not yet in our accounts as we only have on £14m in cash at bank and in hand.

Accounting befuddles me to the extent that I've spent about fifteen minutes trying to work that out most likely to find out I'm wrong.

I've no doubt I'm missing the point here (maybe) but how do you go from a Billion in the bank minus £662m in accumulated loss to £435m left over?