Another new Brexit thread

[purplenose]

Sounds like your views are pretty closely aligned with mine.

A Corbyn government with McDonnell in No. 11, is the greatest threat this country has faced in 75 years.

Put it this way if it were a choice of remaining or Corbyn I would become a remainer!!

 

[Chippy_boy]

It was instigated by the Tories, but I agree it is not just a Tory thing. The problem is the portrayal of it as a Tory thing and the total lack of coverage of the LEXIT position. Therefore it became a Tory thing by default rather than by design .

I would categorise it more like this now

Left<--------------------Labour--------------------------------Centre-----------------------------Tory----------------------------------->Right

LEAVE< I--------------I===============================REMAIN =========I---------------------------------------------------I>LEAVE

I like your diagram. But it's important to differentiate between what the public think, what the party members think, and what the MPs think.

In terms of the parliamentary parties, I'd broadly agree with you. I'd have said:

Left<--------------------Labour--------------------------------Centre-----------------------------Tory----------------------------------->Right

LEAVE< I--I======================================REMAIN ==============================I-----------------------I>LEAVE

There's a huge Remain majority in the HoC. All but 10 Labour MPs are Remainers, and from memory, only something like 100 Tories voted Leave in the Referendum.


But if you look at the party members, it's more like:

Left<--------------------Labour--------------------------------Centre-----------------------------Tory----------------------------------->Right

LEAVE< I---------------------------|====================REMAIN ======|-------------------------------------------------------------I>LEAVE

Which very clearly demonstrates the problem both Labour and (especially) the Tories have. The Tories are powerless to elect a moderate leader, since a huge proportion of their membership are geriatrics shouting "OUT, OUT, OUT". Their leadership election was and always was going to be won by whoever had the most strident anti-EU messaging.

 

[Vic]

I'm beyond caring now mate. So long as Corbyn is trashed in any forthcoming GE, I really don't care anymore. Hard Brexit? Utter calamity, but fine with me. Soft Brexit - OK. Remain? Great. Whatever.

Then stay off the Brexit thread, careless Tory boy.

 

[mcfc1632]

I totally agree that this would/could be a fantastic opportunity for NI...and if i remember correctly, most people welcomed the the idea but it was the DUP who didnt want NI to be different/separate from GB.

However, bringing forward a potential All Ireland referendum is a really bad idea...its not the right time, there is too much division being dug up at the moment. A brand new idea of what "future Ireland" looks like needs to be developed.

A United Ireland completely detached from GB/UK wont happen....but the back stop arrangement could be a testing ground for how things could develop over the years...slowly moving towards a reunified Ireland but input from both RoI and UK

Oh I agree - hence I say: "That would indeed be interesting for the ROI as the reality of what that means kicks in...….."

I do not think that RoI would want that vote anytime soon - so all parties should work in good faith to establish working arrangements and all parties should stop playing politics and blaming each other - even as they weaponise the issue.

Putting that specific issue to one side I believe that what I set out is a workable series of events should Brexit not end up being scrapped - and I would be surprised if it was not close to what actually occurs.

 

[mcfc1632]

Tbf with the busy parliamentary timetable since they got back after the summer I'd be highly suspicious if any of our politicians had time to go there.

It is reported that he has been twice a week - he was certainly there last Friday - the facts though don't suit the narrative some want to push.

That is not aimed at you BTW.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Then stay off the Brexit thread, careless Tory boy.

I am seriously considering changing my username to Tory_boy. For it is not something I am ashamed of, in fact quite the contrary. So when you say it as an insult, I actually take it as a compliment. Tory policies are ones I will always support, because I think they are the right policies to deliver wealth and prosperity to the greatest number of people, for the longest period of time. Thank-you for highlighting my beliefs.

 

[cibaman]

Like the idea of 60% but not sure how you work that over 4 outcomes.

There would only be two in the final runoff

 

[Vic]

You do if you want to compel the PM to do it by law.

Don't bother with the PM.

Law required Parliament to authorise PM to write the article 50 letter because Leaving changed fundamental rights. Remaining doesn't, so revoking A50 just needs a vote by the same Parliament - it's not changing any treaty so government can't claim royal prerogative.

So both houses vote to revoke, Speaker and Lord Speaker jointly write to the EU and say we're staying. By the time it gets tested in the courts we've just carried on as members.

 

[kaz7]

What time is the election vote please? i don't want to have to sit through them all chatting shite

 

[mcfc1632]

Was listening to the radio this morning and an interesting possibility was raised that I had not heard of before.
After a no deal we could come to a 'stand-still agreement' with the E.U for 12 months.
Basically we carry on as normal with the E.U with our current relationship on temporary life support for 12 months, however we are out and remain is no longer a possibility (bar rejoining)
This then gives the government 12 months to negotiate some form of a deal with the E.U

I remember this being discussed in 2017 before May's tragic error

It would take a lot of heat out of the current position - but I think that it was not limited to 12months - I thought several years

Of course it will mean remaining in the CU and SM

But so long as it was time limited and if it meant that we were categorically out...…..