Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

This, the only problem is we've been trying to persuade the UK to buy and eat more UK landed fish like Mackerel for years with no success.

That is true. The main problem is likely to be a shortage of the fish we like because it is diverted to the EU home market to replace the all of a sudden expensive mackerel that they don't want to pay through the nose for. The logical conclusion is that the UK fishing industry will be decimated by leaving with No Deal, as it will suddenly become more difficult and expensive for us to export the 75% of the fish we catch and the home market isn't that keen on mackerel.

 

[blueparrot]

That is true. The main problem is likely to be a shortage of the fish we like because it is diverted to the EU home market to replace the all of a sudden expensive mackerel that they don't want to pay through the nose for. The logical conclusion is that the UK fishing industry will be decimated by leaving with No Deal, as it will suddenly become more difficult and expensive for us to export the 75% of the fish we catch and the home market isn't that keen on mackerel.

That's what I've been saying to MB, he just seems to think without our Mackerel, and the Scottish shellfish lobster etc, the EU is suddenly going to face a seafood shortage. It will just find alternatives that we won't.

 

[Metal Biker]

That's what I've been saying to MB, he just seems to think without our Mackerel, and the Scottish shellfish lobster etc, the EU is suddenly going to face a seafood shortage. It will just find alternatives that we won't.

And I asked you from where outside of Europe. What are these alternatives.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I do love a bit of mackerel.

 

[blueparrot]

And I asked you from where outside of Europe. What are these alternatives.

They don't need to be outside Europes a big place. The UK fishing industry not so big and can fairly easily be replaced especially when the eu market is much more open to different species.

 

[aguero93:20]

And I asked you from where outside of Europe. What are these alternatives.

The Mediterranean and the Atlantic, as well as huge swathes of the North Sea, the Scandinavian straits, the channel, the Irish Sea, the Baltic, the Adriatic, the Black Sea, etc etc etc are all EU waters or freely available to the EU after Brexit. We'll eat less mackerel but more coley and salmon.

 

[Metal Biker]

They don't need to be outside Europes a big place. The UK fishing industry not so big and can fairly easily be replaced especially when the eu market is much more open to different species.

So the complaints from those who work in the British Fishing Industry can be ignored, is basically the tone of your argument that i'm getting.

 

[blueparrot]

So the complaints from those who work in the British Fishing Industry can be ignored, is basically the tone of your argument that i'm getting.

Not ignored but it's a lot more complicated than leaving the EU is good for the industry, much like farmers the more they've learnt about no deal or hard Brexit implications the less keen they are.

http://theconversation.com/brexit-what-the-uk-fishing-industry-wants-107751

"Perhaps most notably, some fishermen suggested that Brexit is not entirely about reversing the CFP, in the sense that foreign vessels should be banned from accessing UK fish stocks in UK waters. Rather, it is about the UK managing its own waters after Brexit more fairly than is possible within the CFP. There is an awareness that most UK fish exports are destined for EU markets and so maintaining a good working relationship is important. "

 

[Metal Biker]

Not ignored but it's a lot more complicated than leaving the EU is good for the industry, much like farmers the more they've learnt about no deal or hard Brexit implications the less keen they are.

http://theconversation.com/brexit-what-the-uk-fishing-industry-wants-107751

"Perhaps most notably, some fishermen suggested that Brexit is not entirely about reversing the CFP, in the sense that foreign vessels should be banned from accessing UK fish stocks in UK waters. Rather, it is about the UK managing its own waters after Brexit more fairly than is possible within the CFP. There is an awareness that most UK fish exports are destined for EU markets and so maintaining a good working relationship is important. "

And how will staying in deliver that for them?

 

[blueparrot]

And how will staying in deliver that for them?

Give up, your not listening.

 

[Vic]

And I asked you from where outside of Europe. What are these alternatives.

EU seafood imports from outside EU €25bn.

Seafood exports from UK £1.5bn. Drop in the ocean.

 

[Metal Biker]

Give up, your not listening.

I asked you a very simple question. They want things fairer, they say the EU and the CFP doesn't make things fairer for them. How will staying in, under the current situation, assuage those who work in the UK fishing industry?

 

[blueparrot]

I asked you a very simple question. They want things fairer, they say the EU and the CFP doesn't make things fairer for them. How will staying in, under the current situation, assuage those who work in the UK fishing industry?

Did you read this bit of it

"There is also an awareness of the possibility that the fishing industry ends up in a worse position, if negotiations with the EU go badly."

If we leave without a deal they have gone badly.

 

[Metal Biker]

Did you read this bit of it

"There is also an awareness of the possibility that the fishing industry ends up in a worse position, if negotiations with the EU go badly."

If we leave without a deal they have gone badly.

I'm nto talking about no deal, this whole time i've not been talking about a no deal scenario, it's not one I endorse. I'm talking about staying in and how the idea of "just staying in and forgetting leaving" helps those in the UK fishing industry.

How do you assuage those who work in the UK fishing industry if the UK remains in the EU, knowing they voted to leave on the back of these principles and concerns that they raised? You're still dodging that answer.

 

[Vic]

No, you misunderstood; from where will Europe get it's fish from? Which other nation?

India. China. Ecuador. Any country with a coastline.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I asked you a very simple question. They want things fairer, they say the EU and the CFP doesn't make things fairer for them. How will staying in, under the current situation, assuage those who work in the UK fishing industry?

The fishing industry is far more complex than the simple concept of being in or out or the EU. Some key details that are overlooked are:

1, Most profitable fishing is in international waters not UK waters. Leaving the EU does nothing to change this fact.
2, The EU fishing quotas were set up to prevent over fishing - when fisherman claim they want things to be fairer what they want is to catch more fish in a less sustainable way - while leaving the EU could facilitate that the obvious response is the EU could just lighten its own limits and you end up with a race to the bottom - before the EU there was massive issues / conflict with various fishing fleets from various countries. Do we go back to that?
3, The EU created fishing licenses that allowed member states to control there own fishing industries by issuing licenses - the UK sold of the licenses in perpetuity therefore the licenses that were sold by the uk government will not automatically be scrapped when we leave. The Government would have to compensate the license holders if it wanted to change the structure of the industry. Most of the licenses are held by big multinational PLCs - not small fishing co's.
4, all of this equates to sub 0.1% of our economy.

 

[blueparrot]

I'm nto talking about no deal, this whole time i've not been talking about a no deal scenario, it's not one I endorse. I'm talking about staying in and how the idea of "just staying in and forgetting leaving" helps those in the UK fishing industry.

How do you assuage those who work in the UK fishing industry if the UK remains in the EU, knowing they voted to leave on the back of these principles and concerns that they raised? You're still dodging that answer.

Maybe leaving isn't the bed of roses they were promised and like many farmers they've changed their mind, probably the best deal for them is Mays WA, except leavers don't want it so it' either no deal or a bad deal that leaves them worse off. Or remain and try and get a better deal, mind you one of their biggest complaints are quotas that help preserve stocks from over fishing.. In he end though leaving or remaining can't be overly influenced by such a small industry.

 

[George Hannah]

The Mediterranean and the Atlantic, as well as huge swathes of the North Sea, the Scandinavian straits, the channel, the Irish Sea, the Baltic, the Adriatic, the Black Sea, etc etc etc are all EU waters or freely available to the EU after Brexit. We'll eat less mackerel but more coley and salmon.

Just need to observe our blue lines if necessary

 

[blueinsa]

Today's remain brexit wheel of fortune has been spun and its landed on......................fish.

 

[Metal Biker]

The fishing industry is far more complex than the simple concept of being in or out or the EU. Some key details that are overlooked are:

1, Most profitable fishing is in international waters not UK waters. Leaving the EU does nothing to change this fact.
2, The EU fishing quotas were set up to prevent over fishing - when fisherman claim they want things to be fairer what they want is to catch more fish in a less sustainable way - while leaving the EU could facilitate that the obvious response is the EU could just lighten its own limits and you end up with a race to the bottom - before the EU there was massive issues / conflict with various fishing fleets from various countries. Do we go back to that?
3, The EU created fishing licenses that allowed member states to control there own fishing industries by issuing licenses - the UK sold of the licenses in perpetuity therefore the licenses that were sold by the uk government will not automatically be scrapped when we leave. The Government would have to compensate the license holders if it wanted to change the structure of the industry. Most of the licenses are held by big multinational PLCs - not small fishing co's.
4, all of this equates to sub 0.1% of our economy.

Yes, i've been told this arguemtn of how "insignificant" it is, but it's not to those who work in the industry itself.

I've been asking remainers to assuage their concerns that remaining in the EU would bring, as it was their entire reason for voting to leave it in the first place. So far the only responses i've been getting is "pfft...". They have a problem with these current EU laws and directives. How do you convince them that staying in the EU is good for them if it is they who raised these concerns in the first place?