Another new Brexit thread

[Coatigan]

But you talk about Scottish Independence (a), and I didn't ask how you voted last time, I asked if you supported the concept, yes or no.

Why do you advocate for independence if you don't?(b)

a) so do you. so do lots of us. it's a topic.

b) Does he? not anywhere i've seen if i'm honest.

Wouldn't jump to conclusions, i guess. There are points being discussed, and that's the important bit is it not.

 

[blueparrot]

a) so do you. so do lots of us. it's a topic.

b) Does he? not anywhere i've seen if i'm honest.

Wouldn't jump to conclusions, i guess. There are points being discussed, and that's the important bit is it not.

I can see the arguments for independence and I’m closer to the line than last time purely because of brexit. So yes when I see arguments against independence I can argue against some of those as they mainly come from people not living here at least the more aggresive ones. As I posted my whole family were against it. Now at least 2 of us are considering voting yes. For us and others the difference will be how brexit pans out in the next 12 months.Even then it will depend on what alternative the EU is offering.

 

[Metal Biker]

a) so do you. so do lots of us. it's a topic.

b) Does he? not anywhere i've seen if i'm honest.

Wouldn't jump to conclusions, i guess. There are points being discussed, and that's the important bit is it not.

No, I don't talk about Scottish Independence from a point of view of being in favour or being against it. You can do what you like, I just prefer people to be honest about their positions and not hypocritical.

 

[Coatigan]

I can see the arguments for independence and I’m closer to the line than last time purely because of brexit. So yes when I see arguments against independence I can argue against some of those as they mainly come from people not living here at least the more aggresive ones. As I posted my whole family were against it. Now at least 2 of us are considering voting yes. For us and others the difference will be how brexit pans out in the next 12 months.Even then it will depend on what alternative the EU is offering.

I got/get that completely.

I am conscious we might annoy the thread relevance folk, or those that have had enough of jocks, (eventhough it is directly relative to brexit and wasnt ironically brought up by either of us) so best left for the scottish independence thread (where brexit similarly also features, as the two are linked).

One point i was hinting at is, because people here seem to see things in such absolutes, it seems difficult for many to appreciate that for some, things simply arent black or white. It seems a case of identify someone as leaver/remainer unionist/nationalist, and frame every point made in that context.
My reminding people that Scotland contributes to the union rather than just scooping subsidies paid for by others is not me making a case for independence, me arguing the logic of representation/mandate for indyref2 in a changed context is not me saying i want one, etc etc. heck even when english/non-scot resident posters point out similar principles, it is because they are remainers etc etc.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

For the record, it's not what most people want.

Biggest referendum vote ever - leave won

General election - conservatives won an overwhelmingly majority and won in most constituencies

Pretty much every mp or party that wanted to remain got kicked out as well

Not everyone who voted labour is a remainer either.

But no you won ;)

 

[BobKowalski]

Can we have another New New Brexit thread where we can re-hash all the old arguments time and time again, with votes and everything, and pretend none of the actual votes over the past three years have happened ?

Given this does seem to be the Govts approach to approach to phase II of negotiations then we might as well. I’m waiting for second airing of the Mail headline ‘Give us a good deal or we will crush you’ on my Brexit Bingo Card. Think I win a toaster.

 

[mcfc1632]

Even if any of that is true, I'm not quite sure why Corbyn is to blame for No Deal (except for agreeing to an election that has left us with the possibility of a Tory No Deal, and for losing).

Who gave us an unwanted referendum? Tories.

Who said No Deal was better than a bad deal? Tories.

Who has delayed Brexit? Tories who had a parliamentary majority and couldn't agree any deal.

Who advocated No Deal during the referendum campaign? No Tories.

Who said we'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border?* Tory liars. * I never like to disappoint.

Who has a big majority and has no need to stick to a deadline to end transition that was always tight even when it was based on leaving nine months ago? Tory Liar Johnson.

Yet you think No Deal would be Corbyn's fault.

Absoutely very largely his fault - and clearly so if you live in the world following the referendum rather than conveniently in the period before that

 

[Vic]

Biggest referendum vote ever - leave won

General election - conservatives won an overwhelmingly majority and won in most constituencies

Pretty much every mp or party that wanted to remain got kicked out as well

Not everyone who voted labour is a remainer either.

But no you won ;)

We'll never know without another referendum. But we all know why you didn't want one. You'd have expected to lose.

 

[Vic]

Absoutely very largely his fault - and clearly so if you live in the world following the referendum rather than conveniently in the period before that

Just weird. If he'd done his job before the referendum (promoting party policy) the result would have been different. Like I said, No Corbyn, no Brexit.

 

[mcfc1632]

Are you saying that the party you voted for and believe in implicitly to deliver Brexit didn't send their best negotiators last time ? But for some strange reason they will do so now?

Absolutely - they were fronted by administrators / amateurs

How can you not know that?

Where the fuck have you been?

I was repeating what I heard from an MP that they are going to use professional negotiators rather than Civil Service amateurs - which would be a huge relief

BTW - where do you get '... Believe in implicitly....'

I have been very clear about my views on the incompetence of the Tories in managing Brexit

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

We'll never know without another referendum. But we all know why you didn't want one. You'd have expected to lose.

I think you are going to have a major problem trying to get over this.

 

[blueinsa]

We'll never know without another referendum. But we all know why you didn't want one. You'd have expected to lose.

Get over it Vic.

 

[mcfc1632]

We'll never know without another referendum. But we all know why you didn't want one. You'd have expected to lose.

So Corbyn got it wrong then

If he had worked with other Remain parties rather than seek to be self-serving......

If we crash out next year - it will be down to him to a large degree

 

[mcfc1632]

Just weird. If he'd done his job before the referendum (promoting party policy) the result would have been different. Like I said, No Corbyn, no Brexit.

Just common sense if you take the blinkers off

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just weird. If he'd done his job before the referendum (promoting party policy) the result would have been different. Like I said, No Corbyn, no Brexit.

I agree with that. Corbyn's pitiful efforts in "campaigning" - if you can call it that - for a Remain position he so very obviously doesn't believe in, almost certainly resulted in Leave winning. It's not all Corbyn's fault of course, other than to say, had he wholeheartedly backed the Remain campaign, I don't thing the Leave camp would have won. But we'll never know.

 

[Vic]

I think you are going to have a major problem trying to get over this.

Some people will have their lives wrecked by this crap.

I'm just not letting those who think it's a good idea start blaming anyone other than the Tory party when it does turn out crap.

 

[Vic]

Get over it Vic.

Why are you still posting? Isn't Brexit done?

 

[blueinsa]

Why are you still posting? Isn't Brexit done?

Purely to counter the shite you and a few
others insist on posting.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Some people will have their lives wrecked by this crap.

I'm just not letting those who think it's a good idea start blaming anyone other than the Tory party when it does turn out crap.

until that happens let’s see what happens eh.

all I have seen is people glad there is a bit of certainty now

ftse up pound up.

but if it all goes to shit then have your fun.

 

[mcfc1632]

I agree with that. Corbyn's pitiful efforts in "campaigning" - if you can call it that - for a Remain position he so very obviously doesn't believe in, almost certainly resulted in Leave winning. It's not all Corbyn's fault of course, other than to say, had he wholeheartedly backed the Remain campaign, I don't thing the Leave camp would have won. But we'll never know.

That is true of the years ago past....

But looking to the recent, current and future...

If we leave with no-deal in the future - a key reason will be Corbyn not working with other Remain parties to sign off May's shit ultra soft Brexit because he was too busy playing self-serving politics seeking to get himself in as PM

Had he either voted for May's deal or let someone else (a Labour Party MP) lead a government following a no confidence vote - then Brexit would have been killed and the risk of a future no deal would not exist

What a self-serving fucker - thankfully

Fuck - did he read the mood of the electorate badly!!!!