Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
Not even democracy makes stuff right that was wrong. You might never have thought the Remain arguments were right but Javid did. He could still argue that democracy means we have to leave but that's no reason to be now advocating a policy that he knows is bad for Britain. (Of course Johnson too knows this but he's gone for telling people what they want to hear rather than what he knows to be true.)
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I'm gonna be honest I think javid is bs'ing.

I don't see how you go from a remain persuasion to pretty much cutting ourselves off from the EU, but hey I could be overthinking
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
You appear to have no understanding of the word 'negotiations'.

The basic concept is that you have maximum demands, a preferred outcome and a point at which you will not agree to what is on offer.
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Yet again...

Most trade negotiations are to create something new. This is to dismantle the best trade deal there is (for no obvious benefit to any party) in the silly hope that there may be other poorer deals made with third parties (the main one of which has a declared policy of negotiating primarily for its own interest).
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
I'm gonna be honest I think javid is bs'ing.

I don't see how you go from a remain persuasion to pretty much cutting ourselves off from the EU, but hey I could be overthinking
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Who's he bs'ing? The people? Johnson? Himself?

Is he likely to find himself in any interview being asked how his present stance fits with what he used to say?
 
Vic said:
Who's he bs'ing? The people? Johnson? Himself?

Is he likely to find himself in any interview being asked how his present stance fits with what he used to say?
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The EU, trying to act all Billy big balls and lay down a marker early on in negotiations.

I don't think it will work because international trade deals aren't exactly like going down to your local car showroom like many believe it to be.
 
Vic said:
Yet again...

Most trade negotiations are to create something new. This is to dismantle the best trade deal there is (for no obvious benefit to any party) in the silly hope that there may be other poorer deals made with third parties (the main one of which has a declared policy of negotiating primarily for its own interest).
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I've decided you are right about everything and I will be demanding that Brexit is stopped even at this late stage.

Happy now?
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
You appear to have no understanding of the word 'negotiations'.

The basic concept is that you have maximum demands, a preferred outcome and a point at which you will not agree to what is on offer.
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and what you are missing is the acceptance that there will be some losers on your side but you don't care about that means that you concede you have a cavalier attitude to the outcome of those negotiations - saying that its on your business community not to have wasted 3 years not preparing when that business community have asked you for 3 years what exactly are they preparing for and making them spend a fortune on leave dates that were missed by your ineptitude sends a message of confusion at home and abroad. As a negotiation tool Javid's comments - whilst in line with previous Govt statements - are just stupid. From 1/2/20 I expect a series of manufacturers and producers decamping to the Euro-zone. The CBI, the Chemical Industries Assoc and the Food and Drink Federation are telling us what the likely outcome is but hey they are experts and in business what the fuck do they know eh?
 
bluethrunthru said:
and what you are missing is the acceptance that there will be some losers on your side but you don't care about that means that you concede you have a cavalier attitude to the outcome of those negotiations - saying that its on your business community not to have wasted 3 years not preparing when that business community have asked you for 3 years what exactly are they preparing for and making them spend a fortune on leave dates that were missed by your ineptitude sends a message of confusion at home and abroad. As a negotiation tool Javid's comments - whilst in line with previous Govt statements - are just stupid. From 1/2/20 I expect a series of manufacturers and producers decamping to the Euro-zone. The CBI, the Chemical Industries Assoc and the Food and Drink Federation are telling us what the likely outcome is but hey they are experts and in business what the fuck do they know eh?
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Here's a thing for you to chew on.

I am the sole UK employee for a large German speciality chemicals company and all the products I sell are manufactured in Germany. Do my German bosses want Brexit? Absolutely not. Will they withdraw from the very profitable UK market if there is no deal and we end up on WTO terms? Again absolutely not as they sell to lots of markets outside of the EU. We have contingency plans in place as it mainly affects UK stockholding.

The fact is even no deal is not a deal breaker.

BTW..at a meeting in Germany in December one of my bosses told me that the EU was the best thing that had happened to Europe in 1000 years :)

Sounds like a few on here
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
Here's a thing for you to chew on.

I am the sole UK employee for a large German speciality chemicals company and all the products I sell are manufactured in Germany. Do my German bosses want Brexit? Absolutely not. Will they withdraw from the very profitable UK market if there is no deal and we end up on WTO terms? Again absolutely not as they sell to lots of markets outside of the EU. We have contingency plans in place as it mainly affects UK stockholding.

The fact is even no deal is not a deal breaker.

BTW..at a meeting in Germany in December one of my bosses told me that the EU was the best thing that had happened to Europe in 1000 years :)

Sounds like a few on here
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Here's a thing for you t chew on.

You are the sole UK employee for one German company.

That somehow makes you the oracle on the effect of leaving and/or no deal for all companies?

Ha ha ha ha - I am sure thousands of leavers will be glad of your sage advice and your positive commentary as they face losing their jobs... luckily it seems you won't. I can see where your positivity comes from.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Here's a thing for you t chew on.

You are the sole UK employee for one German company.

That somehow makes you the oracle on the effect of leaving and/or no deal for all companies?

Ha ha ha ha - I am sure thousands of leavers will be glad of your sage advice and your positive commentary as they face losing their jobs... luckily it seems you won't. I can see where your positivity comes from.
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I can definitely see where your negativity comes from.

You are in the same camp as the German I quoted...

Good for you.
 
bluethrunthru said:
17,399,999 voters salute your good fortune.
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Mate, they have been completely hoodwinked. Fragile egos prevent them looking at the reality. It really is a waste of time and energy engaging as they have completely lost the ability to think critically on the subject.

There are no tangible benefits to leaving the EU, even the current architects are on record as saying so but for reasons we are not privy to they have set aside their own good sense and continue down this destructive road.

The whole world thinks we are fucking mad but these plums carry on thinking it's a great idea. Brainwashed !
 
dave_blue12 said:
Mate, they have been completely hoodwinked. Fragile egos prevent them looking at the reality. It really is a waste of time and energy engaging as they have completely lost the ability to think critically on the subject.

There are no tangible benefits to leaving the EU, even the current architects are on record as saying so but for reasons we are not privy to they have set aside their own good sense and continue down this destructive road.

The whole world thinks we are fucking mad but these plums carry on thinking it's a great idea. Brainwashed !
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At least one of them has the Brexit he voted for...................now lets just project that clock face onto Downing Street......its a fucking circus
 
dave_blue12 said:
Mate, they have been completely hoodwinked. Fragile egos prevent them looking at the reality. It really is a waste of time and energy engaging as they have completely lost the ability to think critically on the subject.

There are no tangible benefits to leaving the EU, even the current architects are on record as saying so but for reasons we are not privy to they have set aside their own good sense and continue down this destructive road.

The whole world thinks we are fucking mad but these plums carry on thinking it's a great idea. Brainwashed !
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I'd just like to take a moment to thank you for your service in continuing to share the country you love with all the people that are not as clever as you.
 
Vic said:
You add the phrase "even if not outside Westminster" to what he said and think that excuses you from posting to imply that what he said a month means he hasn't accepted that he's lost. That's pathetic (but it was good enough to get someone else on board).

You really should listen to that talk by Shriver.

For Leavers it's about having won. For Remainers it's about being right.

So who's right? Javid then or Javid now? Nothing has changed to mean what he said 3 years ago is wrong. If it helps you don't need to read the whole thing, as it's mostly just the stuff Remainers here have argued, but feel free to answer his main question.

I can see why some people want to leave the EU. Arguments about national identity and sovereignty pack an emotional punch. But for anyone who cares about British jobs, it comes down to one key question.

Do businesses want the benefits and security of continued access to the Single Market, or the instability and uncertainty of a lost decade?
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Sorry - your blinkedness makes you divert the posts of others - as you have been doing here with mine

You are, IMO, babbling in an echo chamber that has nothing to do with the points I was/am making

Happy to discuss any points you want - when you re-join the world of relevance
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
After three years of listening to the EU spout off about what terms they are prepared to offer the UK it is refreshing to hear Javid putting a few markers down as to what the UK will or won't accept.

The EU probably couldn't believe their luck when the compliant May made Europhile insider Olly Robbins chief negotiator and the fact that there was a Remain majority Parliament in place. No wonder they factored in the calculation that Brexit might never actually happen if they could spin things out - even I would take that approach. However the game has changed and negotiations will be a lot tougher from now on. I still think there will be a deal but expect lots of noise from both sides for domestic consumption.
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Indeed - well said

Robins was utterly incompetent - scandalous that he was acting on behalf of the UK
 
Ahhh - nice to see Leavers in such denial as the truth about the damage to our economy is being made real....oh if only someone had warned us....oh they did but Leavers called it Project Fear - not quite the picture painted by Sajid Javid but what does he know he is only chancellor of the exchequer.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Robins was utterly incompetent - scandalous that he was acting on behalf of the UK
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Really? If you go back to the beginning of all this the lack of trained people to negotiate wasn't a problem...we were Britain... they need us more than we needed them .... now all of a sudden when it looks like its not what was suggested then all of a sudden its the civil servants fault.....those who made the case...who'd have thought that would be the case?
 
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