Another new Brexit thread

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kevin horlocks wand said:
we have listed numerous times the reasons why we voted brexit . Everytime you have demanded name a SINGLE benefit of leaving,
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I well remember your long list

I think that it was unwelcome and inconvenient - it may have gone over a few heads as well

Given how things have gone since 2016 - beyond all the benefits you listed - a huge benefit now would be simply getting free of this soured relationship where there will be no goodwill in the future and the challenges we all face post-Covid requires national focus and self-determination of policy and priorities

The key problem for me we face, in the here and now of 2020, is that we need to move on from the legacy that resulted from a period of 3 years following the referendum in which the UK was led by people not committed to leaving.

The EU would have observed all the machinations at Westminster and been confident that they could just drag the timeline out and some event - a GE or 2nd referendum would see the decision to Leave reversed - their standard playbook.

It went even better for them - May/Robbins took 'direct control' of the 'negotiations' and displayed total willingness to draft into a WA whatever the EU required to provide a form of status quo of when we were members - so she could claim we had left - although in reality not in any meaningful way.

The EU was gifted, though the May WA with the unfettered backstop, a position that was far better for them than the UK being retained as members - all the benefits from UK membership plus controls over UK domestic policy and without the botheration of UK vetoes etc.

I remember posting many times that if there was to be a 2nd referendum with the options being Leave on the terms of May's WA or Remain - I would vote Remain.

The Johnson government - notwithstanding the buffoon that I think he is - it seems is a genuine Vote Leave government - committed to genuinely Leaving.

To do this - the damage of May's tenure, reflected in the WA, has to be unpicked - she placed the UK in a far worse position than we were in before the vote. I had not expected the determination/steel/callousness that we are seeing - I find it unsavoury, but recognise that it is needed. There is not a goodwill route out of this - eggs indeed need to be broken.
 
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Didsbury Dave said:
I don't care whether you like it or not, to be honest. You and your ilk fucked up my business and my pension and you damaged my children's futures. When you stuck your two fingers up to the man, you also stuck them up to me and the rest of the country who have to live in your stinking pile of shit for decades.
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Good rant - and well displays the objectivity an impersonal attitude that you always bring to the topic
 
west didsblue said:
Do we know that the whole thing has been rolled over?
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Not 100% sure in fairness, just journo speculation I read. The truth will out but on the surface seems like good news.

Ultimately tho it's 14bn of our exports compared to 300bn to the EU. It's obvs to be commended to get good deals with the likes of Japan, India, Canada etc but the big one that's gonna impact our future is the one we seem so keen on sacking off at the moment.
 
west didsblue said:
Does the rollover of an existing agreement count as a benefit?
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well it’s a trade deal isn’t it which you all said would take years to negotiate .

Even if it is a roll over isn’t it a win because I thought as we are out of the eu these other countries will destroy the lickle old uk without the combined weight of the eu behind us ?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
well it’s a trade deal isn’t it which you all said would take years to negotiate .

Even if it is a roll over isn’t it a win because I thought as we are out of the eu these other countries will destroy the lickle old uk without the combined weight of the eu behind us ?
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Of course it's a win, even if the win means we stand still rather than go backwards at the end of the year.

However I'll reserve judgment until we've seen the detail. So far all we've seen is our government's take on it which is a 0.07% benefit to GDP over 15 years. I'd like to see what Japan have won from us in exchange for the ability for us to export more stilton.
 
west didsblue said:
Of course it's a win, even if the win means we stand still rather than go backwards at the end of the year.

However I'll reserve judgment until we've seen the detail. So far all we've seen is our government's take on it which is a 0.07% benefit to GDP over 15 years. I'd like to see what Japan have won from us in exchange for the ability for us to export more stilton.
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well Nicola will be pleased the Japanese love whiskey
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I don't care whether you like it or not, to be honest. You and your ilk fucked up my business and my pension and you damaged my children's futures. When you stuck your two fingers up to the man, you also stuck them up to me and the rest of the country who have to live in your stinking pile of shit for decades.
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I get all that.

I also don't care whether you like my vote to leave the EU either. Hopefully i won't resort to calling you a racist, homophobic nationalist because we don't agree on our membership of the EU. I certainly won't get hysterical claiming you have ruined my children's future or my business.

Thanks for the post though last night as i will use it every time its denied any remain voters on here think like that.
 
jaseirai said:
Can't remember what cheese is like in Canada but if it's anything like the USA's, they are in urgent need of it.
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Canadian cheddar is held in high regard. There are also French Canadian provinces that produce cheeses in the French style such as brie - nothing like the rubberised floormats that the Americans will pass off as cheese.
 
joe123 said:
Not 100% sure in fairness, just journo speculation I read. The truth will out but on the surface seems like good news.

Ultimately tho it's 14bn of our exports compared to 300bn to the EU. It's obvs to be commended to get good deals with the likes of Japan, India, Canada etc but the big one that's gonna impact our future is the one we seem so keen on sacking off at the moment.
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It converts a £14.8bn market into a £15.2bn market hence the "boost" to the economy of 0.07% if measured over 15 years.
 
jaseirai said:
Canada next and I've a feeling it will take considerably less time than the 20 year EU time frame.
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It tends to take less time if you piggyback off an agreement that is already in place.

The Japan announcement sees it as a rollover (or mirror) of the existing EU deal as well as protecting its UK investments.

“. ..will allow Japan to continue the profits it has earned under the EU-Japan EPA and ensure business continuity of Japanese companies in UK”.

What will be interesting is to see what we conceded in return for extra goodies. What is good is that it helps maintain an existing trading relationship and its benefits, which is a good thing according to the Govt but a bad thing when it comes to trading with 27 European countries next door to us.

Personally I’m of the view we should be protecting all our existing trading arrangements and benefits but then I don‘t have a stick up my arse over Europe.
 
BobKowalski said:
It tends to take less time if you piggyback off an agreement that is already in place.

The Japan announcement sees it as a rollover (or mirror) of the existing EU deal as well as protecting its UK investments.

“. ..will allow Japan to continue the profits it has earned under the EU-Japan EPA and ensure business continuity of Japanese companies in UK”.

What will be interesting is to see what we conceded in return for extra goodies. What is good is that it helps maintain an existing trading relationship and its benefits, which is a good thing according to the Govt but a bad thing when it comes to trading with 27 European countries next door to us.

Personally I’m of the view we should be protecting all our existing trading arrangements and benefits but then I don‘t have a stick up my arse over Europe.
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Oh believe me you do.
 
west didsblue said:
Of course it's a win, even if the win means we stand still rather than go backwards at the end of the year.

However I'll reserve judgment until we've seen the detail. So far all we've seen is our government's take on it which is a 0.07% benefit to GDP over 15 years. I'd like to see what Japan have won from us in exchange for the ability for us to export more stilton.
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Data exchange and Financial Services is what they get I think. Japanese investment in the UK has dropped except in Financial Services. Likely we dropped some of the data protections which the EU is very keen on at the moment. I think we also relaxed restrictions on people coming to the UK as part of any Services business/contracts.

It won’t be anything major for either side, important bit for both sides was to rollover existing arrangements and protect what we have.
 
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