Another new Brexit thread

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kevin horlocks wand said:
I would not worry we are still a democracy if it does not work the great British public can vote in labour , they can then renationalise everything possible, increase welfare , bring in a 90% tax rate release all the prisoners and close the prisons .

You might want to bring in a new tax ,an additional 25% tax on anyone who is a white male.
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Have you actually read Labour’s manifesto?
 
Ban-jani said:
No they can’t. We have the ability to make EU nationals prove they can support themselves and have work available when they settle, or it’s not worth them leaving their other 1st world country to come here because we can send them back. Other EU citizens literally contribute more per head than the British population anyway so we do not enforce these controls.

That’s not even factoring in that the majority of immigrants come from outside the EU, where our government could turn them away at the border, again they do not do this.

Your problem with large scale immigration is first and foremost Westminster’s fault.

Immigration from the EU will most certainly come down following Brexit, however it will go up drastically from elsewhere. When we go, in desperation, to the likes of China and India, begging for a free trade agreement because we don’t have any, the deal will have to include many many visas.

I really don’t think you understand what’s about to happen, should we leave with no deal in October.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I see, first hand, how easy it is for EU passport holders to circumvent the "support themselves" "have work available" criteria. Regularly.
But we're going 'round in circles, so we'll see what happens. As an aside, I don't think we'll leave with no-deal. I think there'll be a break in the current impasse. I do think we'll be leaving though, something I wasn't sure would happen under May and for that, Johnson gets my credit.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
It both is and isn't. Isn't the whole point of the GFA to allow the nation of Northern Ireland to be referred to as the UK or part of the UK, so as not to offend NI citizens who see themselves as Irish, not British?

Just trying to be respectful. If that's not the case, then apologies.
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That is definitely NOT the whole point of the GFA.....the whole point of the GFA, a referendum ratified by the UK and Irish governments, was to allow the people of NI to decide the fate of the country, ie primarily focusing on the border/reunification issue.

That happened in 1998...so if there is going to be a change to the border, we have to decide our fate. Our/my/your government agreed this first.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
That is definitely NOT the whole point of the GFA.....the whole point of the GFA, a referendum ratified by the UK and Irish governments, was to allow the people of NI to decide the fate of the country, ie primarily focusing on the border/reunification issue.

That happened in 1998...so if there is going to be a change to the border, we have to decide our fate. Our/my/your government agreed this first.
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Well you can see the confusion, can't you.

Our/my/your government, which is it? It varies depending on whoever you'd speak to, so how does one, not associated, speak respectfully of how that person wishes to be addressed? In my view, the UK is the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, who citizens chooses to continue to associate with Great Britain and has the right to decide it's own dependence without any British interference.

How else am I supposed to address the situation? Naturally for a NI citizen with more affirmation to the Republic of Ireland, they'd be more accepting of me not "claiming" NI as British, no? And here's something to throw into the mix; I don't consider myself "British", either.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
That is definitely NOT the whole point of the GFA.....the whole point of the GFA, a referendum ratified by the UK and Irish governments, was to allow the people of NI to decide the fate of the country, ie primarily focusing on the border/reunification issue.

That happened in 1998...so if there is going to be a change to the border, we have to decide our fate. Our/my/your government agreed this first.
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Yes and we have had this debate before. The essential part of the agreement and the tricky bit was not having the same customs arrangement across the border but having and establishing a power sharing government in Northern Ireland so the good people of Northern Ireland could govern itself .

But you all fell out and you are ruled directly from England again . We don’t want that we want you to govern in stormont. You keep falling out .

And by the way I have not seen a single post by any leaver which says fuck the GFA , sod it. We want peace respected and the gfa agreement to be upheld. We don’t want a border and we want peace.

However at the moment the only political voice is the shouty DUP. I would love it if stormont could be reestablished and Northern Ireland had a proper political voice of its own. At the moment it is being used as a political football between the eu and the uk and Northern Ireland deserves better.
 
BobKowalski said:
But are currently running the country.
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As a result of a nationwide, free vote in the 2017 general election, which we will hold again in a few years time to decide if the current government and Parliament is still fit for purpose. Again, where is the far-right mandate/ideology taking hold of the nation? It's hyperbolic rhetoric designed to increase fear and hate with no basis in reality.

This nation has never voted in a far-right Parliament and never will.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
No deal isn't nonsense, it's the default position come October 31st 2019.

The red lines are already "removed" when May stepped down, the EU wants to know what Johnsons red lines are, if any, but nobody knows for certain yet, but people tend to speculate.

As Kevin Horlocks Wand has already pointed out, no deal made between BoJo and the EU will ever pass the HoC anyway because Parlaiment is filled with remainer MP's who want to stop brexit and Labour and the SNP will never back a deal that makes BoJo look good by "delivering" brexit. The whole of Parliament is to blame for this mess, their pointless squabbles, petty arguments, biased agendas and political rivalries.

They've ALL forgotten that reaching a successful conclusion to brexit is and should be their main concern, but their political alliegience and stance of brexit refuses to allow them to achieve this.
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Don't disagree with you MB, but the same could be said of why you had such an ill-prepared referendum in the first place.
This whole thing is playing out how it started, as nothing more than political rivalries between parties and inter-party.
I'd argue that you should have had all that internal squabbling sorted first before voting to leave, but how-or-never, you did and you are where you are.

Maybe going forward the only way is to have a GE and elect a parliament that will pass a clear exit strategy/deal/no deal.

Something is badly broken in Britain and from the outside looking in, apart from how much damage it's going to do to us in the ROI, the bit that rankles most is the constant passing of the blame. By all means leave. But the onus is on you to sort out your own parliament, to get it done.

Life will go on, even after a no deal. Expecting it to be the same or better is not an option though.
Leaving on a no deal will not be the end of it either. It's only the beginning. You've a helluva mess on your hands for a while.
 
johnnytapia said:
We'll have to agree to disagree. I see, first hand, how easy it is for EU passport holders to circumvent the "support themselves" "have work available" criteria. Regularly.
But we're going 'round in circles, so we'll see what happens. As an aside, I don't think we'll leave with no-deal. I think there'll be a break in the current impasse. I do think we'll be leaving though, something I wasn't sure would happen under May and for that, Johnson gets my credit.
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How do you see first hand? Is it related to your job?
I thought you were a teacher.
 
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