Another new Brexit thread

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BobKowalski said:
I thought the Mail was bad...how the fuck are we going to guard fucking fish?

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Thats just a blockade against immigrants....and coincides with the announcement that asylum claims will be banned at sea (which is in contravention of the UN International Laws of the Sea and the Refugee Convention of 1951......
theres not much fishing done in the busiest waterway on the planet. The Tories hoods are slipping now.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Migrants will be banned from making UK asylum claims at sea

A post-Brexit shake-up of asylum rules could ultimately result in intercepted migrant boats being immediately taken back to France.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk


I still maintain that Brexit was nothing more than a xenophobic play...
 
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mcfc1632 said:
I have pointed out for years that there are some on this forum that would clearly have an active desire for there to be bad outcomes for the UK and their citizens - just so long as get to feel that they have won an argument on a football forum

When posting that opinion I have received pelters - but it was of course right

As the end of the process draws near and they are not getting what they want - the masks start to slip
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Maybe it's actually you who wants a bad deal because you want to to tell those that want a bad to tell you that they told you there'd be a bad deal so that you can tell them that you were right?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Indeed - that is why we have a parliament and the vast majority of policy decisions are made by parliament following a party being elected based on a manifesto.....

And an arrangement, holding a referendum, has been established so that, on the rare occasion, that it is deemed that advice is needed on a key question to confirm the wish of the electorate they can do so.

One such occasion was 1975 when the electorate advised that the UK should continue its membership of the EC.

a 2nd occasion was, following 41 years of increased and increasing levels of integration which saw the established trading bloc be evolved towards a fully integrated and supranational organisation, was in 2016 when the electorate advised that the UK should not continue its membership of the EU

Simple facts - and I would just add that behaviours observed following each would suggest that Leavers are significantly more tolerant and accepting of the views of others and the outcomes of democratically arrived at decisions
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Advised? Pah!
 
Ban-jani said:
This is one of those occasions where you tell people the deal is done and fine without worrying about the future.

He’s blatantly lied through his back teeth and used confirmation bias last year.

That said, if the EU are trying their luck and infringing on Britain being independent, at this point, we should tell them to fuck off.
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Johnson lies therefore EU should f off.

A late contender for non sequitur of the week.
 
jay_mcfc said:
Maybe it's actually you who wants a bad deal because you want to to tell those that want a bad to tell you that they told you there'd be a bad deal so that you can tell them that you were right?
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Keep up - the post that I was replying to was in turn quoting a Remainer explicitly stating that they wanted bad outcomes
 
mcfc1632 said:
I have pointed out for years that there are some on this forum that would clearly have an active desire for there to be bad outcomes for the UK and their citizens - just so long as get to feel that they have won an argument on a football forum

When posting that opinion I have received pelters - but it was of course right

As the end of the process draws near and they are not getting what they want - the masks start to slip
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You're the one that wants no deal, guaranteeing the worst for Britain.

We have won the argument. We said Brexit would be crap. It is, with or without a deal.

I suppose gunboats are the latest negotiating tactic to prove we have a viable walk away option.
 
Vic said:
You're the one that wants no deal, guaranteeing the worst for Britain.

We have won the argument. We said Brexit would be crap. It is, with or without a deal.

I suppose gunboats are the latest negotiating tactic to prove we have a viable walk away option.
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I certainly hope that there is a deal - but a deal that is appropriate to the UK having left the EU - like they have with other countries

I certainly do not want a deal that is loaded with constraints on the UK and that allows the EU to essentially control the setting of key UK policies in perpetuity

So, that's (yet) another outright falsehood from you - unsurprisingly there are some of us that choose not to engage with you because of this characteristic you have

Also, you say: "We (Remainers) have won the argument."

Really? - how is that going for you
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Nope - you were - again - totally wrong
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I've lost track. What am I wrong about now?

That you're being disingenuous about advocating an extension of existing fishing rights (before the government conceded it)? Or that you're being disingenuous about a BRINO deal ever being available since the referendum?

You use the excuse to avoid engaging that I twist words (whatever it was it must be years ago and I suspect you can't remember) but everyone knows it's because you have no answer. But it doesn't prevent your continuing to make the same assertions.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Anyone expecting Johnson to 'do the honourable thing' and fall on his sword on Sunday if its announced theres no deal?
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Johnson and honourable there’s two words that don’t fit together. What happened to this amazing deal we were going to get they talked about in 2016, he said the Eu would be practically begging us for one and we hold all the cards.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I certainly hope that there is a deal - but a deal that is appropriate to the UK having left the EU - like they have with other countries

I certainly do not want a deal that is loaded with constraints on the UK and that allows the EU to essentially control the setting of key UK policies in perpetuity

So, that's (yet) another outright falsehood from you - unsurprisingly there are some of us that choose not to engage with you because of this characteristic you have

Also, you say: "We (Remainers) have won the argument."

Really? - how is that going for you
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Ok, you want a deal. Is that an Australian type deal?

Put it another way. I accept you wanted a deal once the EU showed movement because of our viable walk away option and political will. You're not getting that deal, so now you want no deal. Is that what you mean by twisting words, or is that just a logical argument?

How's it going? To be right that you were wrong about the line you've used hundreds of times? It's awful. Knowing how wrong you've been is very small consolation against the damage to the UK.
 
All the home counties retired Majors will be loving this. I expect they will be reforming the Home Guard, posting spotters on roofs for incoming Junkers and marching up and down high streets across the home counties with platoons of little Englanders armed with Mops and pool cues as they heartily belt out Britannia rules the waves as our little navy boats protect our fish, the fish of course will have Union Flag hats on so we can identify they are indeed our fish and not those nasty sort of fish that the Krauts eat.

Johnson the fucking idiot has caused all this and his ERG crackpot wing will be in ecstasy as they reimagine standing alone against the Hun.

I cant believe the chest beating stupidity of our PM and his acolytes, they are so desperate not to look fucking stupid they have resorted to this. its not fucking Dunkirk or D Day, its not the Battle of Jutland, it is a fucking deal on trade. Just walk away for fucks sake and stop embarrassing the nation to save your own fucking ego's.

The sooner we are out the better and the sooner we can have a true Socialist state.
 
Rascal said:
All the home counties retired Majors will be loving this. I expect they will be reforming the Home Guard, posting spotters on roofs for incoming Junkers and marching up and down high streets across the home counties with platoons of little Englanders armed with Mops and pool cues as they heartily belt out Britannia rules the waves as our little navy boats protect our fish, the fish of course will have Union Flag hats on so we can identify they are indeed our fish and not those nasty sort of fish that the Krauts eat.

Johnson the fucking idiot has caused all this and his ERG crackpot wing will be in ecstasy as they reimagine standing alone against the Hun.

I cant believe the chest beating stupidity of our PM and his acolytes, they are so desperate not to look fucking stupid they have resorted to this. its not fucking Dunkirk or D Day, its not the Battle of Jutland, it is a fucking deal on trade. Just walk away for fucks sake and stop embarrassing the nation to save your own fucking ego's.

The sooner we are out the better and the sooner we can have a true Socialist state.
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Can’t see it happening in England in our lifetime mate.
 
Rascal said:
All the home counties retired Majors will be loving this. I expect they will be reforming the Home Guard, posting spotters on roofs for incoming Junkers and marching up and down high streets across the home counties with platoons of little Englanders armed with Mops and pool cues as they heartily belt out Britannia rules the waves as our little navy boats protect our fish, the fish of course will have Union Flag hats on so we can identify they are indeed our fish and not those nasty sort of fish that the Krauts eat.

Johnson the fucking idiot has caused all this and his ERG crackpot wing will be in ecstasy as they reimagine standing alone against the Hun.

I cant believe the chest beating stupidity of our PM and his acolytes, they are so desperate not to look fucking stupid they have resorted to this. its not fucking Dunkirk or D Day, its not the Battle of Jutland, it is a fucking deal on trade. Just walk away for fucks sake and stop embarrassing the nation to save your own fucking ego's.

The sooner we are out the better and the sooner we can have a true Socialist state.
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We can’t walk away, there is no where to walk to. We are trapped by geography and are now screaming at the sky in frustration.

Brexit is just one long lament for a fictional world, as, to be honest, is a true Socialist state.

But everyone is entitled to their dreams, even if they are currently getting arse fucked by reality.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It was a jolly enough read even if it was from a deeply conservative commentator from a deeply conservative journal.
No matter it described the factions and alliances as I understand them to be although in a union of 27 it is hardly surprising that tensions exist and are managed, the biggest being the financial situation of the med countries and the EU's repeated juggling act of keeping their economies 'in the air' without dropping a ball. It points to a continued more fiscally integrated Euro zone but there is nothing particularly new in any of that. It will be interesting to see how the summit in December goes. I think the recalcitrants will fall into line. I rather liked Ruttes quote:

Rutte said bluntly that Hungary and Poland should fix the situation. "Ask these two how they want to solve it," Rutte said. Injecting a bit of Dutch philosophy and poetry, he added: "The EU doesn't work in such a way that you can stub out your corona cigar, take a sip and wait for the others to let the roast chickens fly into your mouth."
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I went back to find your analysis of that article I linked the other day - I would have referred to it earlier if I had seen it - sorry I did not and missing it was the only reason.

I see your comments to be pretty much reserved to the aspects of general relationships referred to in the article. Really limited to areas of what could be considered to be 'normal tensions'.

I am assuming that was not deliberate - given the depth of analysis that I have seen from you previously I would have expected you to pick up on the more fundamental areas that the article raised - but to be fair I realise that my initial post could have been deemed to be a bit 'high-handed' and I should have been more explicit. So I will on one subject - debt mutualisation:

1/ What are your general thoughts about the EU aims of achieving debt mutualisation across the EU - what do you think will be achieved and what damage could be done to the Eurozone?

2/ What are your specific thoughts about how that is going to work for the 'Frugal four': Holland, Sweden, Denmark, and Austria?

3/ What do you think that it will mean specifically for Germany - and by extension and related to debt mutualisation - can you understand why Germany have been/were/are keen for the UK to Remain in the EU?

4/ Why do you think that the subject has caused a rift in the Franco/German relationship - but also caused Germany to abandon the Frugal four?

5/ What do you think that it could have meant for the UK over the next 10-20 years if we had Remained in the EU?

6/ Given the prevailing conditions of the Mediterranean Europe group — Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal and many other more recent members resulting from the 2004 and 2007 enlargements that are seeking more and more money for staying in the Euro - do you see it as a one-off exercise or will it be required to be repeated? - what are the implications of that?

Also - here are some associated questions that are not specifically touched upon in or logically flowing from the article, but I think are quite relevant and I would really appreciate your views on

What 'motivating characteristic' would you suggest that the countries that joined the EU through the 2004 and 2007 enlargements had in common? and how many of these countries are 'contributors'?

And, similarly, what 'motivating characteristic' would those countries identified as future members have in common? and how many of these countries would be 'contributors'?

How many countries that are currently independent and potential contributors are seeking accession?

Perhaps these would be more interesting questions to debate rather than the level to which the thread has sunk to - afterall, achieving the raising of the thread content up was an aspiration of yours.

You have in the past encouraged me to post openly on the forum rather than in PMs - I wonder if raising such questions as these will lead you to realise why I might have preferred PMs.
 
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