Another new Brexit thread

[squirtyflower]

Said it a long while back...the EU Single Market, Freedom of movement are two of the biggest liberalising moments in European history. Abolishing borders to trade and people is an amazing achievement.

Indeed it was, and many people are all for that, despite the constant erroneous accusations of racism.
However far too many unelected mandarins stuck their noses in the trough introducing ideologies that suited them and not the populations of Europe.

 

[jaseirai]

You have to laugh at the irony of us threatening to intercept French fishing vessels when we threw away our airborne maritime reconnaissance capability 10 years ago and now rely on our allies to carry it out for us until the replacements to Nimrod go into service. Guess which country has been helping us out? It begins with F.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ta/file/742817/UKFR_MilitaryCooperationA5.pdf
Page 10

Ours are better.

Fourth RAF Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft named

The fourth RAF Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft has been named in honour of the role played by the Icelandic capital and its people.

www.raf.mod.uk

Not to mention Reapers.

 

[Saddleworth2]

My last visit to the thread before I carry on my 'pre-match preparations' - 2 hours ahead where I am so started early

Couple of quick points....

Yes - spotted you were spot on about "..assessment of Hungary and Poland position was on the mark." I applaud that - but it was unlikely that they would not be pressured to fold - I suspect a bad taste is left

Re: "Seeing how you are encouraging intelligent debate on the forum......"

Well actually that was you - and I am trying to support you - but I will deal with that (" implication of no deal on the U.K. in 2021?") - tomorrow. Let's see how others also support your aim?

Curious that you say:

"..Not interested in the medium or long term, just your assessment of the next year."

Surely immediate inconvenience is well trumped by long-term benefit? Seems deliberate attempt to avoid a lack of 'proper thinking' to seek to score a point?

No, not at all. Just interested in your assessment of the next year. You ask me 20 questions and then balk at the single one I throw back.
interesting.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It’s fucking disgusting what this country has become. One of the major points of the EU in the first place was to bring European countries closer together in the time following WW2 so that we’d never see conflict between our nations again (we haven’t). Now we’re ripping that apart and waking up to headlines about sending in gunboats. Shameful.

View attachment 6570

Shameful and selfish.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You say that, but people under 50, the younger generations, voted to remain by a landslide. By in large it was the older people that tipped the vote and they’re going to be retired or no longer with us while those younger generations have to work through it. I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kinda weird to celebrate being free of the EU for generations when those upcoming generations wanted to remain.

View attachment 6574

tbf, people tend to get more conservative as they get older (if you can describe wanting to leave the EU as being ‘conservative’!)

 

[hilts]

Said it a long while back...the EU Single Market, Freedom of movement are two of the biggest liberalising moments in European history. Abolishing borders to trade and people is an amazing achievement.

Okay but those two measures alone don't make a federal Europe. It's not a trap because I haven't seen it discussed before. What is your ideal federal Europe in more detail?

 

[west didsblue]

Ours are better.

Fourth RAF Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft named

The fourth RAF Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft has been named in honour of the role played by the Icelandic capital and its people.

www.raf.mod.uk

Not to mention Reapers.

I presume you are aware that they are only just being delivered this year and next year and are not fully operational until 2024.

 

[squirtyflower]

Shameful and selfish.

Completely shellfish, but I call scallops to the report

 

[Rascal]

It is entirely possible to dislike the EU and think that leave was a shite idea, purely due to who would be conducting it.

Of course it is, I despise Farage and Johnson. If the FBFE lunatics hadn't pushed the Labour party into an idiotic position of supporting a 2nd referendum/sitting on various fences/engaging in civil war, this would all have been moot.

 

[journolud]

My last visit to the thread before I carry on my 'pre-match preparations' - 2 hours ahead where I am so started early

Couple of quick points....

Yes - spotted you were spot on about "..assessment of Hungary and Poland position was on the mark." I applaud that - but it was unlikely that they would not be pressured to fold - I suspect a bad taste is left

Re: "Seeing how you are encouraging intelligent debate on the forum......"

Well actually that was you - and I am trying to support you - but I will deal with that (" implication of no deal on the U.K. in 2021?") - tomorrow, or at a time when I have seen answers to my questions. Let's see how others also support your aim?

Curious that you say:

"..Not interested in the medium or long term, just your assessment of the next year."

Surely immediate inconvenience is well trumped by long-term benefit? Seems deliberate attempt to avoid a lack of 'proper thinking' to seek to score a point?

As you’re 2 hours ahead can you tell us is the match worth watching?

 

[Ban-jani]

To stop asylum seekers ..... but I keep being told that Brexit isn't racist . The boats are in the English channel ... the busiest sea route in the northern hemisphere... where next to no fishing is done.


Why do you think they're there?

Enforcing and policing your border effectively against illegal immigration isn’t racism.

For crying out loud.

 

[Rascal]

Do you not think that was what moderates were saying about Corbyn? He failed to make a case, failed to make any sort of palpable contribution to the debate, moped about with a bit of a sneer. He didn't campaign.

He was a leaver by tradition leading a party whose PLP were majority remain and were actively trying to remove him against the memberships wishes. He could not fully campaign for remain as it would have made him a hypocrite.

And now that's the moderates fault? They were told off by the right for being too quick to judge Leavers. Told all their stats and so on were project fear. Whilst the socialists sat on their hands?

The Lexit voice was never heard, the debate was dominated by the likes of Farage and the ERG. It was principled leave v unprincipled leave. The same objective, but two different desired outcomes so Lexit could not be allowed to gain traction in the fine balancing act of ideological fervour. It was the moderate PLP who pushed Labour into an untenable position and lost the party the red wall as a result, it was almost like it was planned by those in the party who wished to return to the moderate Blairite era.

This stuff is funnier than any politics I've ever known. I have a mental quote book of the hurtful and abusive tactics of the populist nationalist supporters from the last five years. It's the worse most worrying thing I've ever read. I've another comprising the rhetorical sophistries and dizzying mental acrobatics of the socialists as they arrive back where they started every time, blaming moderates, tacitly supporting and politically enabling the actual populist nationalists.

We blame the moderates, because the blame lies with them. They are due to their own stupidity getting an extreme Tory brexit. Denial of democracy never rests easy with the populace.

Both sides: 50% true believer, and 50% those who play along.

It's how easy the manipulation occurs. That's what moderates despise and fear. Why we wouldn't support Corbyn. There's too many very unreliable people in the shadows who will use that sort of ideological cover. They are like ticks. Once in, they start to play. Destructively, abusively, all a series of tactics and distractions designed to cover for them whilst they acquire more status power and loot. It takes a lifetime to remove them.

That is incredibly cynical even for me and i am a cynic.

Brexit turned out to be the moment that made me realise I was wasting my time talking. Just vote. Never again indulge people who are capable of this sort of laughable rhetorical nonsense. Just find others, and vote. No, you will never have an old school socialist Britain. I'm very left of centre, and no-one like me will allow it. Because it's full of crooked figures, and these days, it's most known for exhibiting intolerable levels of political intolerance that will always create a resistant attitude. Never mind the hypocrisy of Momentum lads cancelling anyone who didn't know the right words for outing themselves or being a right wing troll, then ganging up on twitter to call Rachel Riley a 'C*NT

Momentum are the moderates, they are the social liberals, the Blue Labour acolytes. The admirers of Glasman, Lansman et al. I have no idea if Rachel Riley is a **** or not as apart from being a rag fucker and being good at counting I am not sure why you have even brought up her.

' - it all somehow manages to literally enable nationalism and popularism.

What does?

Because, ? Because you really dream of outright pitch battles with them? Democracy isn't enough for people to live their fantasies of overcoming and crushing our opposite numbers with righteousness AND force. Which is just as well, because the enemies, the battles, are in our heads, and the reality never satisfies even the victor. It just sets up another war.

This whole topic is farcical. Leave and Republicanism and now you lot - you never take responsibility. Ever. Just shuffle the words in someone else's question until you can pose your favoured question back to them, just to change the topic away from YOUR shit, again and again. This is like talking to abusive people, narcissists. People get TIRED. Life is HARD, especially now. Eventually people will be begging to stop this constant nonsense, that's only reached this level due to the effects of the legislative/regulatory gap which social media currently enjoys, and due to general ignorance about the effect these new ways of consuming information have on us.

Who is you lot?

Which is all a laugh really. You know what - people like me got so unhappy at what was thrown away - amongst other things, the imminent move towards a global regulatory framework designed to tackle international money laundering, and tax avoidance by billionaires, criminal heads of states and the worse behaved of the multinationals - so awfully unhappy that we'd thrown away that once in a lifetime chance - so very angry with the rhetorical games ordinary people started playing - so messed up, that we, the pragmatists stopped looking to make allies for the next deal on the table.

Now i am getting confused.

That deal is still there. And it's never talked about. It's the Scandanavian thing. Say bye bye to unions imposing a political ideology onto a work force, let them reform to truly serve the individuals within it, and then solidify their status and recognition within law. Boost up protection for all workers and citizens, and promote a healthy optimism and acceptance.

You voted Leave then?

So, you wanna change the subject forever? Wanna keep fighting until this country falls apart, uncollected rubbish, no healthcare, just jingoistic nonsense? Or will some of you finally see sense, and start looking forward?

Looking forward to what?

 

[Rascal]

Enforcing and policing your border effectively against illegal immigration isn’t racism.

For crying out loud.

Doing it against Asylum Seekers is.

Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, Under international law, it is not illegal to seek asylum. Article 14(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides that ‘everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

 

[Ban-jani]

Doing it against Asylum Seekers is.

Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, Under international law, it is not illegal to seek asylum. Article 14(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides that ‘everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

They’re illegally entering the country from another safe country. If you’re an asylum seeker you go through the official method of seeking asylum, not entering a country by boat illegally.

 

[jaseirai]

I presume you are aware that they are only just being delivered this year and next year and are not fully operational until 2024.

4 out of 9 are already.

UK's Poseidon MRA1 Tracks Russian Patrol Vessel in 1st Operation Mission - Naval News

A Royal Air Force P-8A Poseidon (Poseidon MRA1) Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) completed its first operational mission this week shadowing a Russian vessel in the North Sea near to UK waters.

www.navalnews.com

 

[west didsblue]

4 out of 9 are already.

UK's Poseidon MRA1 Tracks Russian Patrol Vessel in 1st Operation Mission - Naval News

A Royal Air Force P-8A Poseidon (Poseidon MRA1) Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) completed its first operational mission this week shadowing a Russian vessel in the North Sea near to UK waters.

www.navalnews.com

Full operational capability is in 2024. It doesn’t mean they won’t have limited capability before then.

It’s hardly the point of my earlier post though where I was pointing out that we were relying on the French to carry out maritime reconnaissance on our behalf for the last 10 years and now we’re going to be searching for their trawlers.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

They’re illegally entering the country from another safe country. If you’re an asylum seeker you go through the official method of seeking asylum, not entering a country by boat illegally.

And please educate us as to how you apply for asylum in the UK without actually being here? They cross the channel in small boats because there is no safe or official method of seeking asylum.

 

[jaseirai]

Full operational capability is in 2024. It doesn’t mean they won’t have limited capability before then.

It’s hardly the point of my earlier post though where I was pointing out that we were relying on the French to carry out maritime reconnaissance on our behalf for the last 10 years and now we’re going to be searching for their trawlers.

As they rely on our heavy lift capability in Africa in order to prevent their troops getting blown up.

 

[Ban-jani]

And please educate us as to how you apply for asylum in the UK without actually being here? They cross the channel in small boats because there is no safe or official method of seeking asylum.

Claim asylum in the UK

Apply for asylum to stay in the UK as a refugee - eligibility, documents you need, how to apply, screening, asylum interview, help you can get, children

www.gov.uk

 

[west didsblue]

As they rely on our heavy lift capability in Africa in order to prevent their troops getting blown up.

Missing the point but can’t be arsed explaining for a third time.