Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

This may be a daft question, but can the Commonwealth have trade outside the EU without worrying whether we have a deal with the EU?

Or is that something that’s archaic these days?

I genuinely don’t know the ins-and-outs of world trade. I only know a small part of how much we trade away our own goods that are barely bought by our own people (which is bonkers!).

I don’t know the ins-and-outs but I don’t think the ‘Commonwealth’ is a real thing when it comes to global trade in 2020

 

[Vic]

This may be a daft question, but can the Commonwealth have trade outside the EU without worrying whether we have a deal with the EU?

Or is that something that’s archaic these days?

I genuinely don’t know the ins-and-outs of world trade. I only know a small part of how much we trade away our own goods that are barely bought by our own people (which is bonkers!).

Any nation can trade outside the EU and won't give a toss about any deal we do (or don't do) with the EU.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

"the myth that it was just the right that are Eurosceptic". 1975 not a myth.... 2020 yeah, bit of a myth....

It was a Tory government that took us into the EU.
It was a Tory govt that campaigned to keep us in the EU in the 70s. We all remember Mrs Thatcher campaigning in the jumper knitted with all the flags of EU nations.
It was a Tory govt that helped draft and then signed the Maastricht treaty.
It was a Tory govt that joined the ERM as a precursor to joining the euro.
It was a Tory govt, Thatcher then Major, that helped design the single market knowing full well it would lead to depressed wages and reduced bargaining power for lower paid workers.
It was a Tory govt that , again, campaigned to remain in the EU in 2016, spending millions of pounds on a leaflet that was posted to every household in the UK.
It was a Tory govt that tried it's hardest after the referendum to balls up leaving.
Even today, there are hundreds of Tory MPs, councillors, activists, arguing for remain.
Tony Benn was virulently anti EU. As was Peter Shore.

Yep, you're right mate, it's those right wingers who exclusively want out of the EU.

 

[Vic]

It was a Tory government that took us into the EU.
It was a Tory govt that campaigned to keep us in the EU in the 70s. We all remember Mrs Thatcher campaigning in the jumper knitted with all the flags of EU nations.
It was a Tory govt that helped draft and then signed the Maastricht treaty.
It was a Tory govt that joined the ERM as a precursor to joining the euro.
It was a Tory govt, Thatcher then Major, that helped design the single market knowing full well it would lead to depressed wages and reduced bargaining power for lower paid workers.
It was a Tory govt that , again, campaigned to remain in the EU in 2016, spending millions of pounds on a leaflet that was posted to every household in the UK.
It was a Tory govt that tried it's hardest after the referendum to balls up leaving.
Even today, there are hundreds of Tory MPs, councillors, activists, arguing for remain.
Tony Benn was virulently anti EU. As was Peter Shore.

Yep, you're right mate, it's those right wingers who exclusively want out of the EU.

The myth is that there a lot on the left now who want to leave. Even Momentum were 75% for Remain.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

The myth is that there a lot on the left now who want to leave. Even Momentum were 75% for Remain.

I make you right if you're saying there is majority of the modern left in favour of remain but it's this myth that has grown up over the last few years that it is only right wing Tories that want to leave that gets my goat.

Patently false. And the most successful lie ever told by the remain side of the argument.

I also bear in mind that many of the modern left would have not looked out of place in the Tory party in the 70s. And still would today but that's a whole nother thread.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It’s no longer 1945

it is in Brexiteers eyes ....... they'll be wrapping themselves in the Union Jack next and talking about trade deals with the colonies .... oh wait.

 

[mcfc1632]

It was a Tory government that took us into the EU.
It was a Tory govt that campaigned to keep us in the EU in the 70s. We all remember Mrs Thatcher campaigning in the jumper knitted with all the flags of EU nations.
It was a Tory govt that helped draft and then signed the Maastricht treaty.
It was a Tory govt that joined the ERM as a precursor to joining the euro.
It was a Tory govt, Thatcher then Major, that helped design the single market knowing full well it would lead to depressed wages and reduced bargaining power for lower paid workers.
It was a Tory govt that , again, campaigned to remain in the EU in 2016, spending millions of pounds on a leaflet that was posted to every household in the UK.
It was a Tory govt that tried it's hardest after the referendum to balls up leaving.
Even today, there are hundreds of Tory MPs, councillors, activists, arguing for remain.
Tony Benn was virulently anti EU. As was Peter Shore.

Yep, you're right mate, it's those right wingers who exclusively want out of the EU.

I make you right if you're saying there is majority of the modern left in favour of remain but it's this myth that has grown up over the last few years that it is only right wing Tories that want to leave that gets my goat.

Patently false. And the most successful lie ever told by the remain side of the argument.

I also bear in mind that many of the modern left would have not looked out of place in the Tory party in the 70s. And still would today but that's a whole nother thread.

​

More of those inconvenient truths so hated by Remainers - they expose their lazy narratives for the nonsense that they are

 

[Ancient Citizen]

It was a Tory government that took us into the EU.
It was a Tory govt that campaigned to keep us in the EU in the 70s. We all remember Mrs Thatcher campaigning in the jumper knitted with all the flags of EU nations.
It was a Tory govt that helped draft and then signed the Maastricht treaty.
It was a Tory govt that joined the ERM as a precursor to joining the euro.
It was a Tory govt, Thatcher then Major, that helped design the single market knowing full well it would lead to depressed wages and reduced bargaining power for lower paid workers.
It was a Tory govt that , again, campaigned to remain in the EU in 2016, spending millions of pounds on a leaflet that was posted to every household in the UK.
It was a Tory govt that tried it's hardest after the referendum to balls up leaving.
Even today, there are hundreds of Tory MPs, councillors, activists, arguing for remain.
Tony Benn was virulently anti EU. As was Peter Shore.

Yep, you're right mate, it's those right wingers who exclusively want out of the EU.

I could not disagree more with your politics mate, but once again, you're
spot on with this assessment. I don't know if it's the ages of many on here, but
during the era you're talking about, many conservatives were heartily pissed off
with the rabid pro EU stance the party was pushing, and Benn and many others
on the left of Labour were virulently against it.
There are many Conservative Brexit voters that would have switched to Labour,
if that party had adopted leaving the EU as a manifesto recently, as many of
them were prepared to vote for anyone who would deliver what they've always
wanted, Labour didn't realise this, and went the other way, compounded by
an unintelligible Brexit policy.

 

[mcfc1632]

I could not disagree more with your politics mate, but once again, you're
spot on with this assessment. I don't know if it's the ages of many on here, but
during the era you're talking about, many conservatives were heartily pissed off
with the rabid pro EU stance the party was pushing, and Benn and many others
on the left of Labour were virulently against it.
There are many Conservative Brexit voters that would have switched to Labour,
if that party had adopted leaving the EU as a manifesto recently, as many of
them were prepared to vote for anyone who would deliver what they've always
wanted, Labour didn't realise this, and went the other way, compounded by
an unintelligible Brexit policy.

Quite a few Remainers seem to think that badging Brexit as exclusively a 'Tory thing' is a way to demean that support.

They seem to have a rather simplistic way of thinking and only a passing acquaintance with the truth / facts

 

[BobKowalski]

aren't we supposed to be the Billy Bigbollox now we have left? The freedom to do our own deals etc etc

They can’t join the scheme on the basis of collective bargaining power is greater than the individual state. Brexit is largely based on the premise that the opposite is true. It also destroys our negotiation stance with the EU in the current talks ie the UK is the ‘sovereign equal’ of the combined EU nations and both sides have ‘equal weight’.

I mean yes, both arguments and Brexit is delusional bollocks, but folding like this a mere five months after leaving the bloc doesn’t bode well.