Another new Brexit thread

[aguero93:20]

Hasn't the ROI government said they wouldn't want unification to take place unless there's a significant majority in favour in NI? They've seen how divisive it is to take such a momentous decision on the basis of a slim majority. Also I don't think they want a border poll to be dominated by brexit.

Yep.agree with that, as a Republican.

 

[aguero93:20]

The border issue has been deliberately weaponised by he EU

This is the thing though, it hasn't. It's been weaponised by the UK as their only bargaining tool. And by doing so you've well overplayed your hand. You want a war? You're going to get one. Bring it on.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

With the kipper gate saga and the vote in the HoC yesterday this story got missed by me:

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/06/19/...ages-party-required-to-return-their-millions/

It was prety clear to me that the brexit party was set up to accept the donations with the minimum of transparency and it was difficult to see how they could comply with the law. Yesterday it was confirmed:-

The Electoral Commission requires the Brexit Party to check permissibility under section 54 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act (PPERA) 2000, and take necessary action under sections 56 and 57.

This will likely establish that the Brexit Party took donations from unidentifiable and therefore impermissible donors on a massive scale without returning them.

The big isseu now is the electoral commission is very weak in terms of powers, the law breaking appears clear cut yet to progress this:-

During yesterday’s hearing, Bob Posner, chief executive of the Electoral Commission, stated that such an investigation would determine if a donor broke the law and if the Brexit Party “inadvertently or advertently” helped.

Aiding and abetting such illegality is an offence and Posner said that these matters can often be referred to the police.

The law states that a donation not ascertained permissibly must be returned within 30 days after the donation. This cannot be retrospectively fixed. If this was not done, the law has already been broken and that donation must be forfeit. This law must apply to all parties without exception.

The Electoral Commission must discover if the unidentified donations hide potential further illegality. The powers to achieve this can only come from a formal investigation.

So it needs following through with formal investigations and police involvement - exactly what May refused to do with vote leave after the 2016 referendum where similar finance issues are still unresolved. What are the chances Boris deals with this or does he let it go?

 

[George Hannah]

This is the thing though, it hasn't. It's been weaponised by the UK as their only bargaining tool. And by doing so you've well overplayed your hand. You want a war? You're going to get one. Bring it on.

Bellicosity for breakfast?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Good for him. He can go and fuck off though.

Bit harsh. I was more thinking that you'd got to the point fairly admirably.

 

[BobKowalski]

There is absolutely no good reason that Northern Ireland should be different from any other part of a UK outside the EU. The land border issues with the Republic do not threaten the GFA and can be resolved with perseverance and good faith by all parties without compromising the legal integrity of the EU.

The time to show ‘good faith’ was at the start of the A50 negotiations. Good faith would have involved acknowledging the issue rather than dismissing the issue or believing the Irish should roll over and stop fussing or suggest Ireland should leave the EU and join the U.K. in a seperate economic area.

Three years on and ‘good faith’ is dead and buried. The insane rush to do ‘Brexit’ meant ignoring the details and adopting a confrontational attitude with threats to ‘crush the EU or else’ etc. We dug our own Brexit grave and there is little interest in the E27 in helping us out of it.

Brexit: 2016 - 2019 RIP

 

[yerwot?]

If we accept that, then anyone that moves to prevent brexit on the basis of the 'deal' are manifestly lying and are simply trying to stop brexit. I'd have more time for this if it was honestly stated, but it seems a case of the very same folk who get upset by arcane laws like perogation are happy enough when other technical legal points serve their purpose. That would be fine if those same folk didn't ask us to trust/believe them and characterise others as deceitful.

ok, how about this for honestly stating . "Stopping Brexit, at any cost, is essential for the majority of the population's well-being" Revoke is the only " deal " that nullifies the likes of johnson and farage's threat to living standards of the Vast majority.
Secondly, for someone that supports a trumped-up parcel of lies force-fed by the media, paid for by the likes A. Banks and his under-investigation group of dubious partners, to pretend to be "offended" at dishonesty charges is the "mt. Everest of hypocrisy" , further- more i dont believe for one second that is your honest assessment, yet another deflection, another smokescreen, bob and weave duck and dive tactic that brexit is dependent on. Revoke, Remain, Survive, Revenge, now that's a back-stop ...

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Is it over yet ?

 

[BobKowalski]

Is it over yet ?

Well the Panorama program last night did have the feeling of an obituary so...yeah :)

Funeral to be advised. Relatives and close friends only. Closed coffin as it’s bit of a mess inside.

 

[Ban-jani]

Far-right protests are attracting the largest number of supporters since the 1930s as Brexit fuels anger against the "elite", a report has warned.

Research for the Commission for Countering Extremism, seen exclusively by The Independent, said tens of thousands of people have descended on London since the start of 2018 over Tommy Robinson's imprisonment and delays to Britain's departure from the EU.

Some "Free Tommy" protests spilled over into violent attacks on police officers, while "Brexit betrayal" marches saw demonstrators carry nooses and drag effigies of politicians through the streets.

A report by Dr Joe Mulhall, a senior researcher at Hope Not Hate, warned that "the inability of politicians to manage Brexit competently and decisively" was undermining faith in the political system.

"When people feel that the system is broken, they look outside of it and step into a political arena where the far right is able to capitalise on these fears, offering simplistic answers to complex problems," the report said.

 

[lust overlord]

With the kipper gate saga and the vote in the HoC yesterday this story got missed by me:

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/06/19/...ages-party-required-to-return-their-millions/

It was prety clear to me that the brexit party was set up to accept the donations with the minimum of transparency and it was difficult to see how they could comply with the law. Yesterday it was confirmed:-



The big isseu now is the electoral commission is very weak in terms of powers, the law breaking appears clear cut yet to progress this:-



So it needs following through with formal investigations and police involvement - exactly what May refused to do with vote leave after the 2016 referendum where similar finance issues are still unresolved. What are the chances Boris deals with this or does he let it go?

Boris and co will "deal" with this matter, if there is evidence of illegal financing.
I hardly think it likely though.

We are a country with leaders and political figures who are above reproach, as we all know.
Any suggestions of cover ups,or keeping evidence of wrongdoing private for political or financial gain are,I'm sure,wide of the mark.

 

[Metal Biker]

This is the thing though, it hasn't. It's been weaponised by the UK as their only bargaining tool. And by doing so you've well overplayed your hand. You want a war? You're going to get one. Bring it on.

You see, if any of us said something in that sort of tone, we'd be hounded upon.

WTF

 

[BobKowalski]

You see, if any of us said something in that sort of tone, we'd be hounded upon.

WTF

Jeez. Stop with the self pity. No one cares.

 

[George Hannah]

The time to show ‘good faith’ was at the start of the A50 negotiations. Good faith would have involved acknowledging the issue rather than dismissing the issue or believing the Irish should roll over and stop fussing or suggest Ireland should leave the EU and join the U.K. in a seperate economic area.

Three years on and ‘good faith’ is dead and buried. The insane rush to do ‘Brexit’ meant ignoring the details and adopting a confrontational attitude with threats to ‘crush the EU or else’ etc. We dug our own Brexit grave and there is little interest in the E27 in helping us out of it.

Brexit: 2016 - 2019 RIP

The last This Week show had a vote on whether we'd be out this year - out won 75%, don't screw the lid down yet.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

The last This Week show had a vote on whether we'd be out this year - out won 75%, don't screw the lid down yet.

There is still no way I see it happening. If you play every sceario through it doesnt work.

1, No Deal - HoC steps in and brimngs down Gov forces extension and GE.
2, Deal - The EU will not shift on the need for a backstop or something that does the exact same - the ERG are to entrenched to vote for any deal. Boris fails and back to 1.

The only thing that i see that breaks the cycle is boris using a 2nd ref as a threat against the ERG - vote for this or its a 2nd ref. He knows that he looses any snap election so this would have some appeal. He can campaign for no deal while secretley hoping remain wins and he gets to see out the rest of the term as PM without having to deal with brexit.

 

[Metal Biker]

There is still no way I see it happening. If you play every sceario through it doesnt work.

1, No Deal - HoC steps in and brimngs down Gov forces extension and GE.
2, Deal - The EU will not shift on the need for a backstop or something that does the exact same - the ERG are to entrenched to vote for any deal. Boris fails and back to 1.

The only thing that i see that breaks the cycle is boris using a 2nd ref as a threat against the ERG - vote for this or its a 2nd ref. He knows that he looses any snap election so this would have some appeal. He can campaign for no deal while secretley hoping remain wins and he gets to see out the rest of the term as PM without having to deal with brexit.

The Government cannot "force" an extension, the EU must first agree to one.

 

[Metal Biker]

Jeez. Stop with the self pity. No one cares.

You clearly seem to.

Just pointing out it was a silly thing to say.

 

[cibaman]

There is still no way I see it happening. If you play every sceario through it doesnt work.

1, No Deal - HoC steps in and brimngs down Gov forces extension and GE.
2, Deal - The EU will not shift on the need for a backstop or something that does the exact same - the ERG are to entrenched to vote for any deal. Boris fails and back to 1.

The only thing that i see that breaks the cycle is boris using a 2nd ref as a threat against the ERG - vote for this or its a 2nd ref. He knows that he looses any snap election so this would have some appeal. He can campaign for no deal while secretley hoping remain wins and he gets to see out the rest of the term as PM without having to deal with brexit.

I wouldn't entirely rule out 1 leading to leaving this year.

 

[hilts]

This is the thing though, it hasn't. It's been weaponised by the UK as their only bargaining tool. And by doing so you've well overplayed your hand. You want a war? You're going to get one. Bring it on.

Are you talking political or actual fella? I’m guessing you mean the first.

 

[mcfc1632]

I take your point. I'm not sure anyone actually involved with negotiations did at any point threaten either no deal though. It just seemed to be folk trying to either pressure acceptance of mays deal, or Remainers using it as a bogeyman at home. I accept no deal is bad, but I don't think the deal is any better.

No deal presents major problems and will cause difficulties for years to come - but issues that we will be able to address, not least enabled by having direct controls. So near-term pain and medium to long term major gains

Remaining will ensure steadiness in the short-medium term. But will ensure that we will suffer major consequences in the long-term and we will not have the capability to independently manage our way out of the issues. So we will be fucked.

May's WA will be disastrous in the short term and much worse in the medium to long term.
So we will be utterly fucked