Another new Brexit thread

[Gabriel]

Norway for now. Soft Brexit initially with a commitment to a bespoke solution after 5 years, major investment in resolving the NI border issue.

Everyone unhappy initially but it will take the heat of the issue. No absolute winners or losers.

That may be possible but only if October 31st passes and the UK has not left without a deal. While that prospect remains so close for those so determined to leave 'cleanly', then a more moderate approach will presumably be of little appeal. It will perhaps only be when both extremes realise that their most favoured options are unachievable that they will slowly return to somewhere in the middle. They won't move there willingly, nor indeed graciously, but I suspect they'll find the general English public is already there and waiting for them.

 

[blueinsa]

Norway for now. Soft Brexit initially with a commitment to a bespoke solution after 5 years, major investment in resolving the NI border issue.

Everyone unhappy initially but it will take the heat of the issue. No absolute winners or losers.

I think you could well be on to the answer here mate.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Well the rest of us do, and the rest of us, the majority, are sick of brexit and want it concluded with compromises to the situation.

It's only negative nancy's like yourself refusing to back finding a solution that gives the naysayers and the ERG types the impetus to continue to oppose one.

There's your solution that satisfies the majority. Putting pressure on MP's to support this option gets brexit done. Those MP's who refuse will be removed at a GE in favour of those who will agree. The only ones stopping brexit are the 650 or so ego's in Parliament and the people who support them and their selfish stances.

Why do you keep accusing me of spoiling your little plan? I will even accept May's deal, it's dreadful but it fulfils the referendum.

This would be almost like remaining, for me. The only difference being, it's better to be in the EU.

How do you know that leavers will accept this ?

Why do you not care ? What about their vote ?

 

[cibaman]

Pretty much all of the people who demanded Brexit & forced Cameron to have a referendum, would conzider themselves 'betrayed' same as remaining.

I don't care but for them, it would be no different to cancelling it.

Many of them, Farage, banks, Patterson etc spoke out in favour of it prior to the referendum.

The debate has become polarised partly because Leavers have a legitimate belief that the longer this goes on the more likely it is that brexit will be cancelled. I don’t think they really want no deal, apart from a very few, it’s just that no deal gets them over the line before Brexit is binned.

If we formally leave, even on a very soft Brexit, then revocation and 2nd referendum are no longer on the agenda. It’s then about making the best of the new relationship.

Initially nobody will be happy, but if we see it as the starting point rather than the end state then I think people will eventually cool down.

 

[Metal Biker]

Why do you keep accusing me of spoiling your little plan? I will even accept May's deal, it's dreadful but it fulfils the referendum.

This would be almost like remaining, for me. The only difference being, it's better to be in the EU.

How do you know that leavers will accept this ?

Why do you not care ? What about their vote ?

Wait, are you suddenly carign about the opinions of people you once called "Farage's mob"? Please be consistant.

By supporting remaining, you're not caring about leavers votes either; both the hardline AND the compromisers.

Being in the EU means contributing to the EU budget, accepting the politicisation of the bloc, something ever leaver does not.

Some want a clean break, most do not. In this, some leavers agree with some remainers. Some remainers respect the result of the vote, some leavers respect remainers concerns about democracy.

Now, does this mean you've joined the ranks of we "compromisers", who accept that in order to heal British politics we MUST leave the EU, MUST protect the economy by accepting compromises on the Four Freedoms to achieve this, and MUST leave the political aspect of the EU?

 

[Metal Biker]

Many of them, Farage, banks, Patterson etc spoke out in favour of it prior to the referendum.

The debate has become polarised partly because Leavers have a legitimate belief that the longer this goes on the more likely it is that brexit will be cancelled. I don’t think they really want no deal, apart from a very few, it’s just that no deal gets them over the line before Brexit is binned.

If we formally leave, even on a very soft Brexit, then revocation and 2nd referendum are no longer on the agenda. It’s then about making the best of the new relationship.

Initially nobody will be happy, but if we see it as the starting point rather than the end state then I think people will eventually cool down.

It's amazing how many people forget this. And also hypocritical of Farage to forget that, for a time, a Norway style EFTA/EEA outcome is exact what he promoted in the UK leaving the EU, if only as a temporary stopgap.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Many of them, Farage, banks, Patterson etc spoke out in favour of it prior to the referendum.

The debate has become polarised partly because Leavers have a legitimate belief that the longer this goes on the more likely it is that brexit will be cancelled. I don’t think they really want no deal, apart from a very few, it’s just that no deal gets them over the line before Brexit is binned.

If we formally leave, even on a very soft Brexit, then revocation and 2nd referendum are no longer on the agenda. It’s then about making the best of the new relationship.

Initially nobody will be happy, but if we see it as the starting point rather than the end state then I think people will eventually cool down.

They absolutely did speak out in favour, but as we now see, they were lying, about everything & the real.plan has always been no deal.

After them deciding that everyone voted for that, they will not now accept this & will just use it as an excuse to campaign on.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Wait, are you suddenly carign about the opinions of people you once called "Farage's mob"? Please be consistant.

By supporting remaining, you're not caring about leavers votes either; both the hardline AND the compromisers.

Being in the EU means contributing to the EU budget, accepting the politicisation of the bloc, something ever leaver does not.

Some want a clean break, most do not. In this, some leavers agree with some remainers. Some remainers respect the result of the vote, some leavers respect remainers concerns about democracy.

Now, does this mean you've joined the ranks of we "compromisers", who accept that in order to heal British politics we MUST leave the EU, MUST protect the economy by accepting compromises on the Four Freedoms to achieve this, and MUST leave the political aspect of the EU?

I've told you now, as before, I don't give a fuck about them. I have no respect for any of them.

But you have been one of the 'holier than' crew, for years.

Now it's 'fuck them'.

I have said all along, this would be the truth.

 

[Metal Biker]

I've told you now, as before, I don't give a fuck about them. I have no respect for any of them.

But you have been one of the 'holier than' crew, for years.

Now it's 'fuck them'.

I have said all along, this would be the truth.

Pretty sure i've been of the "respect democracy and the British electorate" crew, to be honest.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Honestly? You see Varadkar bowing to an EU demand to erect a hard border in Ireland?

I certainly dont, ever!

Thats why talks are on now to treat the whole of Ireland as one for food and animal movements and checks where needed, trusted trader status for the rest.

No I don’t either, but I honestly cannot see you negotiating a better deal without putting the border down the Irish Sea.
Nobody trusts Johnson and that won’t change if he gains a majority.

Can’t see anyone North or South being happy with any promises of future solutions.
He’d still have to come up with alternatives. I wouldn’t rule out a No Deal if he gains a majority despite all the talk of everyone wanting a deal.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Pretty sure i've been of the "respect democracy and the British electorate" crew, to be honest.

Except those who have a different version of Brexit.

This is exactly what I've said all along would happen. You all voted for your own version, it's not democracy, it's based on lies, & IF there is to be any kind of Brexit, & anyone gives a shit about democracy, then it should be voted on AFTER it has been decided exactly what form a deal takes, not bent to suit one group of people.

As it happens, I don't give a flying fuck about appeasing leave voters, so am totally happy to 'do Norway' as it suits me, every last one of them is doing the same thing but pretending to be morally superior.

But the only way you will get this, is if you elect Corbyn & he puts it to a referendum.

The Tories will not 'do Norway' & they are the ones negotiating.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

We haven’t said no. May said no. Johnson not so much. A bit of a border on the Irish Sea and a bit of a border on land and a bit of NI having regulatory alignment with the EU/Dublin. And for the really tricky bits let’s address that in a year or so. Trust us.

Except they don’t. Irish trusting the good intentions of the Brits on a border in Ireland? No chance. And you think anyone in the EU is going to trust Johnson after the last few weeks? You think there is any mileage in trusting Johnson? Can’t even get Parliament recessed for the Tory Party conference.

Can’t even get the trust of his own family.

 

[Metal Biker]

No I don’t either, but I honestly cannot see you negotiating a better deal without putting the border down the Irish Sea.
Nobody trusts Johnson and that won’t change if he gains a majority.

Can’t see anyone North or South being happy with any promises of future solutions.
He’d still have to come up with alternatives. I wouldn’t rule out a No Deal if he gains a majority despite all the talk of everyone wanting a deal.

So long as the people of NI aren;t bothered about a goods border between them and the UK (and as far as i'm aware the majority aren't) it appears to be the compromise to the solution many of us are seeking.

Stop EU budget contributions
Continue tarriff free trade with our European partners
Allow freedom to forge new relationships outside the EU as a "freelance" independant associate.

 

[Metal Biker]

Except those who have a different version of Brexit.

This is exactly what I've said all along would happen. You all voted for your own version, it's not democracy, it's based on lies, & IF there is to be any kind of Brexit, & anyone gives a shit about democracy, then it should be voted on AFTER it has been decided exactly what form a deal takes, not bent to suit one group of people.

As it happens, I don't give a flying fuck about appeasing leave voters, so am totally happy to 'do Norway' as it suits me, every last one of them is doing the same thing but pretending to be morally superior.

But the only way you will get this, is if you elect Corbyn & he puts it to a referendum.

The Tories will not 'do Norway' & they are the ones negotiating.

Who are in the minority and vastly outnumbered by the compromisers of soft leave/remainers.

I don't know why we're discussing voting for the Tories as i've never shown any support for them, or even voting intentions in general. I wouldn't vote for either at this stage if a GE came around.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

It'll be a cruel world if Jess Phillips doesn't get the Speakers gig, when this is all over.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So long as the people of NI aren;t bothered about a goods border between them and the UK (and as far as i'm aware the majority aren't) it appears to be the compromise to the solution many of us are seeking.

Stop EU budget contributions
Continue tarriff free trade with our European partners
Allow freedom to forge new relationships outside the EU as a "freelance" independant associate.

'Norway also pays more per capita into the EU budget than the UK, raising questions about “substantially smaller” contributions promised. While the EEA does not cover agriculture or fisheries, existing EU red lines are unchanged, meaning if the UK wants tariff-free access for goods it will face demands that existing rights for EU fishing fleets are maintained'

 

[Metal Biker]

'Norway also pays more per capita into the EU budget than the UK, raising questions about “substantially smaller” contributions promised. While the EEA does not cover agriculture or fisheries, existing EU red lines are unchanged, meaning if the UK wants tariff-free access for goods it will face demands that existing rights for EU fishing fleets are maintained'

EFTA members, however, do not have to contribute to the EU budget, nor does it envisage a Customs Union.

A solution criminally overlooked in this entire debate.

 

[yerwot?]

again with the fuckin' democracy clap-trap, the campaign against THE EU was the most concentrated biased longest running travesty ever aimed at the british public, to even pretend it had an iota of democratic value is fuckin' shameful.....
Unlike the right-honourable miniature for brexit-or-die, i cannot speak for the millions who detest being lied to, used, smeared with arrogant assumptions, dismissed as "traitors", so will never use the ever-so presumptuous "WE" as though it inferred some superior knowledge and membership of an elite "brotherhood" . FFS

 

[Neville Kneville]

EFTA members, however, do not have to contribute to the EU budget, nor does it envisage a Customs Union.

A solution criminally overlooked in this entire debate.

So we've sacked off the 'Norway' idea then ?

Pity.

 

[Metal Biker]

So we've sacked off the 'Norway' idea then ?

Pity.

EFTA is the Norway idea. Norway is both EEA and a member of the EFTA.

So what are you talking about or are you just being deliberately dismissive?